[ SECRET POST #2000 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2000 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 110 secrets from Secret Submission Post #286.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 2 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't get the impression that Loki really thought his plan very far ahead. Most of his ideas seemed to come from outsourcing (i.e. mind controlled Clint. Barton really was the brains of the outfit, Loki was mostly a distraction.) Unless there was a serious Xanatos gambit going on, his long term plan kind of sucked too.

Loki's secret evil plan
1) Get to Earth
2) Get tresseract for aliens who obviously want to betray him
3) Learn from mind controlled BAMF how to hurt his brother
4) Be a distraction so said BAMF can do almost all the work
5) Open portal for alien army
6) ???
7) Profit

[insanenoodlyguy]

Yeah, but #5 was the goal. And he succeeded. Portal was open. They fucked up a lot of it after that, what with not killing the avengers and getting nuked. He did his part just fine. He failed in his personal persuits but not his main objective.

[(Anonymous)]

The alien army was the clincher, and nearly succeeded, if it hadn't been Selvig's act of subversion, and humanity's willingness to blow themselves up.

[(Anonymous)]

The problem is, they fail to establish that as a credible threat as well. Holy shit guys! The alien army is coming!! ...and blurping aimlessly around Manhattan like it's a giant aquarium, leading to collateral damage that couldn't possibly be exceeding what the heroes themselves are causing to the city!!

[(Anonymous)]

collateral damage that couldn't possibly be exceeding what the heroes themselves are causing to the city

*laughs* Um, no. I think you need to grab a torrent and rewatch.

[(Anonymous)]

Oh, really? Perhaps I need to refresh my memory. It gets a bit fuzzy who was destroying what, and much of the action involving the aliens was them just flying around and crushing things by random happenstance. For the most part they were just... there.

That does not, however, address the unintimidating aimlessness of the alien army -- did they kill people? Presumably, but are we ever shown such a thing? And does it matter when the only death the movie ever acknowledged as mattering at all earlier in the film is Coulson's, which drives everyone to action? The only danger the movie presents there is that the Avengers will get tired -- but since we saw pairs of them beat the shit out of each other earlier in the movie and keep getting back up over and over, their vulnerability wasn't established either.

Basically what I'm saying is that Loki and his army were both failing all over the place.

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT Hell yeah they were killing people. We just didn't see it explicitly, and I think that was an editorial decision. (I was already horrified enough at the 9/11 parallels and I'm not even from the US.) All those explosions and buildings being shattered... you don't think there would've been mass death, bodies falling & getting crushed & shot & incinerated?

[(Anonymous)]

But the Avengers also crush buildings and shatter windows and destroy things. The "lead them through narrow spaces where there are apartment buildings" was one of the heroes' plans, which explicitly requires destroying places that people live in, and some of the most evocative shots in that whole segment of the movie are of the Hulk scaring the shit out of people and showering them in broken glass. The movie tells us that collateral damage isn't a problem, much less the problem, because the protagonists are doing it themselves and cheerily quipping at each other all the while.

We are meant to assume that, but if you want to establish real tension, presently in that moment, that's not really enough. It makes the aliens seem like basically escaped zoo animals.

[(Anonymous)]

There's exploding glass, and I watched that on the edge of my seat, but it didn't look super-destructive, not compared to the Chitauri. People were running back from the glass. I take your point that some lives may have been lost due to the Hulk, but far far far less than what the Chitauri were doing with their firepower and mega-monsters.

[(Anonymous)]

I don't think the Avengers killed more people, or that they are just as bad as the villains, or anything. I just think that, if the aliens' primary motivation really was just killing a bunch of people, and the writers did not want to show this happening, then they set these villains as well as Loki up to be less intimidating when Loki, earlier in the movie, killed eighty people all by himself and this was shown to not be something worth caring about beyond a single line of acknowledgment because we didn't see it (and they weren't Phil Coulson).

If that many deaths were not even enough to get the Avengers to realize they need to get their shit together, and are still not important enough to be shown on screen, how then are we supposed to feel that they are enough to make an unfocused alien attack the biggest threat in the movie and something that speaks well of Loki's competence as a villain?

I think I lost my original point here somewhere. I think Loki was just kind of throwing a violent tantrum and didn't utilize any of the skills he's supposed to be known for.

[(Anonymous)]

I think a show of force is a perfectly valid first step in conquering a world. There was no interest in first engaging in threats and diplomacy.

I agree that we didn't get much opportunity to see Loki being tricksy, but I don't think that was a lack in the movie, that was a lack in the characterisation we've got a preconception of from comics, mythology, arguably Thor, etc. I thought Loki was way too strung out here to be smart about things, too, he was being more blunt force, but ymmv.

I would adore more properly trickster Loki in Thor 2, yes ma'am.

[(Anonymous)]

I think Thor had a fair amount of trickery, though yes, not as much as in the mythos. Avengers Loki was noticeably more Looney Tunes-esquely demented and lacking in foresight.