[ SECRET POST #2007 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2007 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 111 secrets from Secret Submission Post #287.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ], [ 1 - text secret ], [ 1 - empty image ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

The reason I don't call myself a feminist is actaully a little more complex, full of various conflicts and abhorent ideas that have gotten so inseparably mixed up in the politics of the movemnet that I believe the cor concept of 'Equality' is in danger of being lost and twisted by the modern spirit of the movement. I've heard the theories that these people are fringe, but that's simply not my experience.

I think the idea of Men and Women being equal' can best be served by removing it from the bullshit, and politics and mindless hate that has drained into a movement that really should be about dispelling hate.

I mean, How many times do you feel the need to remind people 'Hey, feminism is about men and women being equal' (and not just to people outside the movment?) It's a worthy idea to remind people of, but it's such an important one, it shouldn't be (a. an idea only associated with one movement (b. Be an idea that people NEED to be reminded of. Feminism SHOULD be inherantly about that idea, and yet because of the politics and the hate and the twisting that gets into any single group of people it isn't.

So Basically for an idea to become a society-wide pervasive idea it can't be allowed tolive or die on the strenght of one movment, and certainly not one movment that is in such a state as the current feminist movment.

Well anyway, that barely scratched the surface of my issues with the word, and its already much more than I wanted to type.

In the context of THIS descussion, let me highlight 1 particualr issue I have:

The gesture I was refering to, that the OP deserved some credit for doing somthing to help further the idea that woman can be just a bad-ass as a man by helping get the under-publisized fem!shep out in peoples face. A small gesture, but somthing positive and worth of some respect.

What You assumed the gesture I was refering to (and the part of the secret people only seem to care about) What labels she uses.

It's a problem I've seen around a bit: The appearance of feminism > the actions a person takes as a feminist.

[(Anonymous)]

Feminism is not about men and women being equal, though. It's about empowering women.

[fuchsiascreams]

I think the dictionary would disagree with you about that..

[littlestbirds]

okay, I guess I shouldn't have replied so late because now it's obvious what you meant by "gesture", and I understand what you mean more about people putting definitions above actions.

but on the other hand, this side of feminism, the side full of hate and politics, is really foreign to me? I grew up around "feminists" as I understand it, I have friends who call themselves feminists too. We will speak up when people have explicitly sexist assumptions, which they often don't realize they are making. And when I hear women say "I'm not a feminist" it is usually young women who think:

a) women won perfect equality and respect some time in the 90's?
b) feminists are all smelly lesbians who hate men

But your reasons sound very real, and I guess I've just been living in my apolitical little sphere of engineering/retail/international development (an odd mix, I know) and I don't participate in online communities.

So Basically for an idea to become a society-wide pervasive idea it can't be allowed tolive or die on the strenght of one movment, and certainly not one movment that is in such a state as the current feminist movment.

I hope you're wrong about this, I tend to think gender equality as a concept is too widespread to "die". I also spend time around people who work very hard within the system for economic and social change and don't give a shit about labels and "movements". I don't always agree with them, but these practical "talk is cheap and protesting is useless" people are making a difference and aren't participating in some "feminist movement".

And besides that, I am a female engineer who was raised by a 2nd wave feminist and I don't want to let some extremists take away a concept that still has meaning in my life...

ugh sorry for tl;dr incoherence. I hope this explained my confusion a bit more, and I guess I understand where you're coming from now!

[(Anonymous)]

First off: I feel I should apologise for coming out swinging. I tend to go on the defensive when it comes to my ideals, particluarly the ideas that tend to be... provokative. So I appreciate you not seeming to take anything I said personally.

I understand these issue, like all issues people care about, come down to personal experience If you've not experienced some of the discussions where... well the last argument I had was *deleted that whole paragraph. I dont have the enrgy to argue it again* horrible. and I did not find myself with nearly as many allies as I did detractors and the opinions expressed were simply... monsterous, from so-called enlightened people claiming to support the ideals of feminism... but I digress, My point is if you've not experienced it, there's no reason for you to feel the same way as me. If all you've seen is thepositive side of the movment there's really no reason to not stivk with the word. But for some of us, the Word betrays the ideals it's supposed to stand for.

My main point about the ideal of gender equality 'Dieing' is more that the idea SHOULD be wider spread than the label. Insisting eveyone who believes in gender equality be forced under the single banner of 'Feminist' with all the various connotations people bring to it, just seems counter productive. If there is a 'catch all' label I'd be willing have applied to me, it would be the 'Not an Arsehole' movement. much less strict rules, and label lawyering, and 'You're not a real feminist if you believe x' bullshit. 1 simple rule 'Don't be a prick' but I suppose even that would get bogged down with pricks pretty quickly.

I

[(Anonymous)]

'm babbeling, (it's beena long day) but I guess the point I'm going for is that the ideal need to be bigger than the word, or the people, or the movment. that you can be a person who simply believes the genders are, and should be seen as equal without having to call yourself a feminist, that it should just be 'The way you are' you know?

I really am babbeling but just to address the one last thing:

"And besides that, I am a female engineer who was raised by a 2nd wave feminist and I don't want to let some extremists take away a concept that still has meaning in my life"

Well that's the thing isn't it. They can take and twist and transform the WORD, words and meaning change all the time. but the meaning, the concept need to be bigger than that.

Right. bed time I think.
Toodles.

[(Anonymous)]

Huh, Last point:
I'm not saying I judge people who DO call themselves feminists. I have meat a significant number of people who hold the origional ideal true, I just don't believe they are in as high a majority as they claim to be (then again, who's ever argued a point believeing themselves to be the be the arsehole? 'Look, Crazy feminists are in the minority. I'm not one of them, I'm a sane one. Also I think whores like megan fox make us look bad and should be locked away in a box in a wharehouse')

My main bone of contention is that from what I've seen, being a feminist doesn't necessarily mean you believe men and women are equal. like 'Men and women are equal, but some are more equal than others' kinda thing.

Actually animal farm is a good example. You can start off a movment with a clear nobel goal, but given time, Arseholes worm their way in and corrupt things to their benifit.

Seriously, though, I'm off now.