fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2033 ]

[ SECRET POST #2033 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2033 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

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02.

[Mortal Kombat]

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03.

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04.

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05.

[The Young and the Restless]

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06.

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07.

[Firefly, Joss Whedon; Sherlock BBC, Steven Moffat]

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08. http://i.imgur.com/Je2qV.png
[not really porny but implied underage sexual stuff; photomanip; snape/hermione]

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09.

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10.

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11.

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12.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

13. [SPOILER WARNING for Pokemon Black/White]

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14. [SPOILER WARNING for Kurau: Phantom Memory]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

15. [WARNING for rape]

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16. [WARNING for suicide]

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17. [WARNING for incest]

[Kono Naka ni Hikari, Imouto ga Iru!]

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18. [WARNING for animal death/abuse?]

[Eden Lake]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #290.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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. . .am I the only person on the thread that thought the 'annoying dick' line was rather affectionate? Sherlock IS an annoying dick, and John cares about him and puts up with him anyway.

I never thought about the hostage bit being a bit OOC, but I see where you're coming from. I guess I just assumed that John wanted one of them to be able to explain the whole thing away outside of a jail cell when it was done. . .

Well, in fairness, that was kind of the context (he WAS using it as a way of telling Sherlock he believed in him, after all), but... I dunno, why not have him actually say something nice?

I think saying something nice would have defeated the point. John had two things he wanted to say in that bit there. One was "No, I know you for real." which he does, he's lived with him and worked with him and cared about him for a good while. The second was "No one could fake being such an annoying dick all the time." This proved that he didn't put Sherlock up on some pedestal or have any illusions about him: one of Sherlock's (in the BBC canon version) main character traits is that he's a complete dick. Both Sherlock AND John know this, and John is teasing him about it, both to reassure him and to lighten the mood. Also, John has issues with being openly affectionate with most people, so that adds to it too.

If John had said something along the lines of "No, I know you for real. You have such a big heart. . ." I probably would have started laughing. . .

"No, I know you for real. You have such a big heart. . ."

How about him saying just the first sentence?

Because he wanted to tease him? Idk. I liked it the way it was and found it affectionate enough, but YMMV I guess :D

I guess...

My point is, if they were trying to compare Irene and John's feeling for Sherlock (which is kinda weird, anyway--she'd known him for five minutes, John had known him for almost a year...), why is it that we really only see the evidence of Irene's feelings and not John's?

I don't know. I see John's evidence of John's feelings more in his actions than in his words anyway. I mean, in the scene where they compare Irene and John, he's yelling at her because he's angry because she's made Sherlock depressed and John is worried that Sherlock's a danger to himself & he's been watching over Sherlock like a hawk for days.

I guess MY point is that yeah, sometimes their affection is shown in weird ways (fondly calling Sherlock a dick, poisoning John out of 'trust'), but it's still there (in a fucked up way), even if they don't ever say "oh, I love you so much" etc. etc.

I don't really know how their relationship could be stronger 'after' that conversation than before it, though. The conversation is about Sherlock and John 'already' being a couple. Unless John decides to completely throw his heterosexuality out the window (and Sherlock does. . .whatever he does, his sexuality canonically is ambiguous), they're as close as they're going to get.

. . .I'm kind of amused that I'm on this side of the argument because I don't even ship Sherlock/John

I don't really know how their relationship could be stronger 'after' that conversation than before it, though.

Then what was the point of that scene? It created all these issues for no damn reason.

And this isn't really about shipping (though now that I think about it: If the show is making a comparison between Irene and John, and Irene wants to jump Sherlock bones, shouldn't John want to, as well?). I'm not saying they have to have sex, or even kiss, but... something.

OH. Yeah, I get where you're coming from now. No, there really wasn't any point to that scene, other than to bait shippers, which is a whole other problematic can of worms.

Ag. I love Sherlock despite its flaws, but if someone off the street asked me to show them some problematic modern day media, I'd show them "The Blind Banker" and "A Scandal in Belgravia," NGL.

It WOULD be nice to see them be a bit more affectionate in the future, if the writers wrote it well. I guess in my head, sometimes they are a bit more affectionate to each other when we don't see it. I think my views on this matter may be affected by the sheer mass of fan content I have consumed over the past seven months.

other than to bait shippers, which is a whole other problematic can of worms.

Yeah, don't even get me started on that...

It WOULD be nice to see them be a bit more affectionate in the future, if the writers wrote it well.

Yes, exactly. And I don't mean annoying schmoopy stuff hat would be ooc; there are ways they could do it that would fit both their characters...

Re: Containing some spoilers...

htebazytook - 2012-07-28 13:59 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Containing some spoilers...

biohazardgirl - 2012-07-28 19:12 (UTC) - Expand

I apologize if I sound wishy washy in my argument now. It's very late where I am, and my thoughts definitely aren't as organized as I'd like them to be. You bring up some very valid points though :D

Re: Containing some spoilers...

fenm - 2012-07-28 08:35 (UTC) - Expand

I'm a shipper through and through, but looking at the Irene/John warehouse convo w/o the slash googles, she's talking about how John and Sherlock are dependent on one another--I don't think she literally meant a romantic couple

. . .I didn't say that they were a romantic couple. I just said that they were a couple. Canonically, they're the platonic loves of each others' lives, and they're both pretty much completely dependent on one another, so much so that John has difficulties having actual romantic relationships because of his relationship with Sherlock. They shop together & eat the same food, they work together on cases & most likely share a bank account, they live together and take care of each other. Irene is right.

:::why is it that we really only see the evidence of Irene's feelings and not John's?::::::::

Sorry have you watched this show?

Yes, and I see a man who sees another as a friend. I do NOT see--as we do with Irene--someone who's interested in him in a romantic and/or sexual way.

i agree. ignoring sherlock's shitty behavior in that scene would have been really ooc for john. he always calls sherlock out, so why would this be an exception? and the way he says it makes it quite easy for sherlock to understand what john is really trying to say, which is that he trusts sherlock and cares about him despite that fact that he is a massive bastard sometimes.

as for the scene with irene and john, well, i really chalk that up as bad writing, because that whole episode is abysmal. i know they took some of that conversation out of canon, but i don't have any idea why it took place in the show. i see john and sherlock's relationship as developing into something that one day will be very close, but they haven't known each other that long, and to state it so obtusely like that so early on is ridiculous, imo. and irene suddenly being smitten with sherlock after having met him for 5 minutes...just lol. but there are so many other things i could say about that episode, and it's just wasted breath. easier just to say that none of it made any damned sense.

The scene between Irene and John takes place nearly a year after John and Sherlock first met. An they became friends MUCH after int the BBC version. So I'm not sure I'd call it "early on".

Irene suddenly being smitten with sherlock after having met him for 5 minutes

I agree, and I think it works both ways. As you say they met once for five minutes as of that scene, but I'm supposed to buy that Sherlock was so depressed when she "dies"...? Bullshit!

:/ Canonically they were pretty much instantly friends. I'm not quite sure what you're talking about when you say that they weren't friends, unless you're talking about what Sherlock says in "Hounds" when he's paranoid and having a panic attack because he's drugged on fear gas.

They liked each other, and lived together; but Watson didn't start working with Holmes, or finding out things about him, for weeks.

Isn't that enough to count as friends, though? Being companiable and living and working together? And, I mean, he did KILL a man for Sherlock, that's got to be worth something too. Also, he could just not work with Sherlock or spend any time with him and just be roommates with him or something and John could work somewhere else and not even talk to Sherlock at all. . .I know I've lived with someone where we got along fine but sometimes we didn't speak for weeks just because we didn't have to. I'm not really sure why you don't think that they're friends.

As for being a sort of platonic 'couple', from BBC canon I would say that I agree with Irene at that point. The timeline of ASiB is really sketchy, but canonically John has been living with Sherlock for at least almost a year by the Christmas scene. They work together at the same job and live together and eat together and just hang out together in the living room. They have joint Christmas parties and gifts (on John's blog John says he and Sherlock contributed to Mrs. Hudson getting her own laptop) & it's a bit ambiguous but I'm pretty sure that John doesn't work anywhere else and he and Sherlock share a bank account. He even cares enough to have gotten Sherlock into the habit of eating and sleeping & out of drug habits and nicotine, and he even drags him along to go shopping shortly before Irene shows up in Sherlock's bedroom. I'm not saying it's romantic or sexual, but they're definitely a couple.

Oh, wait... when you said "Canonically they were pretty much instantly friends" I thought you meant book canon. The person I replied to a few people back said. "i know they took some of that conversation out of canon" So I thought we were comparing book and show canon, and... never mind, I was confused.

Re: Containing some spoilers...

biohazardgirl - 2012-07-28 20:47 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Containing some spoilers...

fenm - 2012-07-28 20:57 (UTC) - Expand

oh i know the timeline, it just feels completely out of place to me because there are so few episodes. i didn't get a sense of them having spent a substantial amount of time together. their whole relationship felt rather rushed imo.

Fair enough. Yeah, with only three episodes, you don't get much each season. And I don't know why Moffat felt the need to cram nearly a whole year into one episode; that doesn't really help matters.

:::why not have him actually say something nice?:::::

Because that would be horribly OOC?

It was affectionate--Sherlock smiled at him after!

It never fails to amaze me how completely people can miss the point with John and Sherlock when they claim to ship them

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