fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2033 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2033 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Mortal Kombat]

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05.

[The Young and the Restless]

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07.

[Firefly, Joss Whedon; Sherlock BBC, Steven Moffat]

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08. http://i.imgur.com/Je2qV.png
[not really porny but implied underage sexual stuff; photomanip; snape/hermione]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

13. [SPOILER WARNING for Pokemon Black/White]

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14. [SPOILER WARNING for Kurau: Phantom Memory]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

15. [WARNING for rape]

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16. [WARNING for suicide]

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17. [WARNING for incest]

[Kono Naka ni Hikari, Imouto ga Iru!]

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18. [WARNING for animal death/abuse?]

[Eden Lake]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #290.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

OP, look, I adore Irene Adler, but she's problematic any which way you look at her. Ultimately, Steven Moffat IS a misogynist, and Irene's character arch has some major flaws ('turning straight', ending up to be working for Moriarty and not just herself, losing, & needing to be saved at the end). If any other person had written her in the same way, they still would have been writing a misogynist story.

Does this mean you have to dislike her character arch? Nope.

Does this mean you have to dislike Irene herself as a character? Hellz no.

Acknowledging the fact that something you like is problematic is a difficult thing to do, but it's important nevertheless.

(Also, seriously, Moffat? Why couldn't Irene just fucking win?)

(Also, seriously, Moffat? Why couldn't Irene just fucking win?)

I personally didn't want Irene to win. Maybe this is horrible of me, but I wouldn't have minded the episode nearly as much if Sherlock hadn't have saved her in the end. I thought that Moffat's Irene was repulsive. She's just a really unlikeable person. She's utterly selfish and manipulative and deceptive, never mind her methods of getting what she wants. It's not about her being a woman, she's just a bad person. So I was really pissed off that Sherlock saved somebody like that.

Even in the books, though, I didn't want Irene to win. But that's just because SH is the hero and I hate seeing him lose.

I am not even talking about who is and isn't sexist. Obviously there are issues with Irene.

I'm talking about how you, for example, just decree that Moffat is always misogynist all the time forever always, and people will just look for ways to support this assumption instead of actually considering a character. If Moffat hadn't written her, people would not be crying sexist nearly as loudly

Naw, Moffat has a pattern of sexist bullshit. Irene was just the latest and possibly for some the straw that broke the camels back of tolerance.

I agree with above though, you can enjoy a character or even a writer and still acknowledge that they're problematic. And just because he's sexist doesn't mean he doesn't also write some pretty awesome things.

Just for the record, I thought Irene had a sexist character arch before I even knew what Steven Moffat was like in interviews. I don't say that Moffat will always BE misogynist, and I don't think ALL his women characters have sexist tones, but many of them do, and that IS a problem, whether you like it or not.

I still like Irene though, even though she's problematic.

And Moffat himself IS a misogynist, and he is prejudiced in other aspects as well, so I do think it's important to recognize where her portrayal is coming from and to notice sexist patterns of behavior. Maybe if he's called out on it enough he'll stop writing characters who fall into sexist roles.

Sorry, the one just above this is me. My computer forgot to log in :D

(Also, seriously, Moffat? Why couldn't Irene just fucking win?)

Because...she was working with terrorists? Believe me, basically all of my favorite characters are kinda terrible and/or criminals and/or killers (hell, look at my icon), but seriously, people would've died if Irene and Moriarty's plan went off without a problem. I really do love her, but that doesn't mean I was rooting for her to kill innocent people. As for having to be saved--I mean, that seemed to be more about the true evilness of the people she worked with, not her being weak; being captured by terrorists doesn't make you an idiot. And I thought that moment was saying much more about Sherlock himself: he has no "logical" reason to save her, and yet he did it because she affected him and made him realize the depth of his feelings. That whole "this is just losing" scene is extremely emotional on his end, he's just pretending it's not. But that's just one way of looking at it, I suppose.

Hm. I like your way of looking at it too :D This thread has definitely given me lots of interesting food for thought about Irene.

[ SECRET POST #2033 ]

Just realized I hadn't put my opinion on this secret yet

Re: Just realized I hadn't put my opinion on this secret yet

OP here

Re: OP here

Re: OP here

Re: OP here

Re: Just realized I hadn't put my opinion on this secret yet

Re: Just realized I hadn't put my opinion on this secret yet