[ SECRET POST #2039 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2039 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 022 secrets from Secret Submission Post #291.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Except they admit it's at least fucking problematic.

The OP is literally saying they want to use seme/uke, words that homosexuals find offensive, because ~*it's fiction*~.

[(Anonymous)]

seme/uke are trope names that describe certain things

how do you talk about those tropes without using those words?

[(Anonymous)]

Op here: that's exactly my point: what exactly are you supposed to say when you're expressing a kink for the specific genre that uses that specific trope .

[(Anonymous)]

idk you could try telling the angry anon that you're deeply ashamed and a bad person w/e but theyd probably tell you it's not enough and you're not ashamed enough and you don't realize how truly horrible you are

so it probably won't work

[unicornherds]

That's actually a good question. I've only ever seen the seme/uke description used in anime, but I've seen the trope all over the place. There's got to be a general term for it that's not so offensive.

[(Anonymous)]

Op here: Oh, I mean specifically in anime/manga.

I wouldn't call it seme/uke in other genres.

[unicornherds]

Gotcha.

I don't know, the more I think about this the more I feel like you really shouldn't get upset that other people get upset. Like...you have to admit that the seme/uke dynamic is offensive to a lot of people, and that's okay. It's okay that they're upset and it's okay that you like it, but you can't expect people not to get upset over something that has such an offensive history and connotations attached to it.

+1

[(Anonymous)]

This.

From the outside, it's reading like OP thinks they shouldn't be upset because it's fiction. Which is commonly used to defend racist and homophobic and sexist stereotypes and portrayals in Hollywood.

[(Anonymous)]

They describe extremely offensive stereotypes.

There are perfectly good words that are NEUTRAL and don't carry all the baggage.

[(Anonymous)]

like what. describe a yaoi seme in perfectly good neutral words that don't take a tldr paragraph

[(Anonymous)]

Now that OP has specified that they like it 24/7 and not just in the bedroom?

Dominant personality and submissive personality. Perfectly neutral, but you get who is in charge and who is submissive right off the bat. Magic!

[(Anonymous)]

that doesn't hardly cover all of standard yaoi tropes, try again

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Seme

[(Anonymous)]

Oh wow, no. No. A plain old "dominant personality" is not what a seme in yaoi is. WTF?

[(Anonymous)]

There is also the literal translation, attacker and receiver. Or top and bottom. But if you insist on liking homophobic things, I will call you a homophobe because history actually means something.

[(Anonymous)]

lmao.

[otakugal15]

curseangel is that you? sounds like your MO.

*goes back to reading threads due to tiredness and boredom*

[(Anonymous)]

use seme/uke, words that homosexuals find offensive,

lol really...

Most of us don't care.

[(Anonymous)]

So because you don't care you're just erasing and dismissing those that do get offended?

[(Anonymous)]

So because you're offended you're saying you speak for everyone? It offends you. It doesn't offend "homosexuals."

[(Anonymous)]

I said most. Thus I'm not erasing shit.

[stainless]

yeah

I pretty much assumed they meant "top" and "bottom" (but agree/d that the portrayals can be annoyingly narrow and unrealistic) until like... this thread

tbh

[(Anonymous)]

See, to me using "top" and "bottom" are totally different than "uke" and "seme". Maybe that's where the problem in discussion comes from - the different interpretations of the words.

[stainless]

Some of it, yeah.

But I still worry that part of it may be that people are really leery of feminine male bottoms (and I'd say feminine female ones, too), and I think part of that can be steeped in homophobia and misogyny.

[(Anonymous)]

Another anon, but what exactly is your definition of a feminine female bottom? If I am to assume that it's the same as an uke, I'd say it's a woman who struggles weakly and cries a lot when someone is having sex with her, but I don't think I like that definition of 'feminine', so... explain, please? Because one can be very feminine during sex and still not act like someone is raping you. Is feminine=completely submissive to you?

[stainless]

Another anon, but what exactly is your definition of a feminine female bottom? If I am to assume that it's the same as an uke, I'd say it's a woman who struggles weakly and cries a lot when someone is having sex with her, but I don't think I like that definition of 'feminine', so... explain, please? Because one can be very feminine during sex and still not act like someone is raping you. Is feminine=completely submissive to you?

Including but not limited to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femme

who are bottoms. (Not all femmes are, though that's kind of The Tradition. I don't pay too much attention to that though because I'm not really invested in the subculture, except insofar as I find femme women nifty and also hot.)

Doesn't really go into it too deeply, sadly. But that should give you the general idea. Some folks assume for some reason that femmes (and other peopel they deem too feminine) are helpless or incapable or otherwise weak, but I've never been able to figure out why that is.

I tend to think there's a lot of skill involved in performing femininity. If you've ever watched any makeup tutorials on YouTube, you'll see some absolutely amazing creativity. It's not just sexy, it's art..

Because one can be very feminine during sex

I'm not sure what "feminine during sex" means to you here. Penetratee? Makeup running from sweat? (Yum...) Voracious sassiness? Faux (or real?) demure demeanor? I don't know what you're getting at, really.

and still not act like someone is raping you.

Not sure where this is coming from -- but I think maybe you're talking about yaoi now, and not about how people act when they're raped? Because I don't know what being traumatized would have to do with what I said about who I'm (most) attracted to?

I will say some rape fantasy is hot to me. I'd hope it would go without saying that rape fantasy is fantasy, and should not be taken for reality. And yes, a lot of yaoi has that in it. (Though right now the only thing I can remember clearly from the days when I used to like yaoi is Under Grand Hotel and while the rapes in that were clearly not realistic, there was at least some plot to it that gave some reason why it kept happening, what with the thing being set in a prison.)

Is feminine=completely submissive to you?

No. Why would it be?

But I am a dominant, (somewhat) masculine top who likes feminine bottoms, so the feminine people or depictions of femininity most likely to rev my engines most quickly will probably be submissive bottoms.

Which was what "I identify with the semes" was saying. Which one's the hot one to me. (I remember a lot of the communities where I used to hang out, a lot of the other fans would be swooning over the seme while I was attracted to the uke. Made me laugh somewhat. I think that disparity of attraction says as much if not more about how women are acculturated than anything else does.)