fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2043 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2043 ⌋

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Notes:

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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Are you serious? Or not?

My sarcasm detector is broken lately, I prefer to ask now.

Totally serious. There is no large-scale oppression of men. A couple of women whining about men on the internet is not equal to misogyny.

And if you're going to start listing RL examples of the oppression of men please do not include examples that are just backlash from discrimination against women.

White People Can't Experience Murder

‘Murder’ is the fatal result of a system of economic, political, social, and cultural institutions that oppresses marginalized racial groups. Murder is killing + power. Murder is not merely the unjustified taking of a human life.

This is the modern, educated definition of murder. Don’t quote the dictionary at me. The dictionary’s definition of murder was created in the 12th century by white people. The best definition of murder is used by academic people of color such as Tim Wise and Judith Katz.

Can POC kill white people? Of course. It’s bad (though understandable) but it’s not murder. It’s killing. Your individual experience (“my mother was killed by a person of color”) does not justify you calling that act “murder.” When you call things like that murder you are dehumanizing the ACTUAL victims of murder.

no.

derailing. derailing. derailing.

yes.

it nicely highlights the ridiculousness and dishonesty of the argument.

I mean misandry is obviously not a real problem, but jesus, accept it exists, just not enough to barely pass a mention and move on.

Otherwise you're going to get lost in semantic bullshit and incoherent ideas.

Yes.

Just ignore this guy. This person has already proved them were a troll yesterday.

Aren't you the sensitive one.

Disagreeing with you isn't trolling though. Keep that in mind for future reference.

Never thought we'd be on different sides of one of these... Misandry is dislike of men. that's it. It has nothing to do with oppression or power, so the "racism" debate doesn't apply here. It's just a state of mind.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misandry
http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/misandrist

So yeah, it's an individual thing that does indeed exist.

I was under the impression that misogyny was defined as a hatred of women learned from a social environment. Clearly IDK what I'm talking about. We're cool.

To be honest the only other time I've ever heard people use misandry were a bunch of internet dudes who believed feminists secretly ran everything and were conspiring to wipe men off of Earth or something.

Edited 2012-08-07 01:25 (UTC)

I've always thought that misogyny could either refer to systematic hatred of women ingrained in society OR hatred of women in general, depending on the context. My dictionary simply defines it as "hatred of women," though the dictionary doesn't really get into sociological meanings, so I try not to rely on it too heavily for that. But it can have multiple connotations.

I think "misandry" is an accurate term for the hatred of men. That's what it means. I think the important thing is recognizing that it's not comparable to misogyny on a sociological level.

Glad I found this out before I really embarrassed myself. I've always associated the word misandry as being something the "Men's Rights Groups" invented.

I'm also finding it funny that spell-check recognizes misogyny but not misandry\

Well, to be fair, I wouldn't say that you're wrong, or that I'm definitely right. "Misandry" is used in an annoying, "Men's Rights Group" sort of way a lot, and I think a lot of people share your understanding of misogyny and misandry.

But I guess I'm used to using "misogyny" to mean both societal hatred of women and individual hatred of women, or the general concept of hating women (though individual situations are often influenced by society a lot). I also associate misogyny with violence in some contexts. So I've never really understood why "misandry" can't be used for general hatred of men when hating men isn't an impossible concept in itself. I respect that it can be a derailing term sometimes, though.

Honestly I'm probably going to continue to side-eye people who use the term "misandry" but it's also better that I know it is actually a word.

fuck the men's rights guys, they're a bunch of frightened, threatened monkeys who can't handle the fact that women don't need men.

but it doesn't mean misandry doesn't exist. is it a systematic thing? absolutely not. does the term get bandied about a lot by douchebags who don't get it? certainly. but misandry and misogyny are, as far as i'm concerned, the same thing: based on hate, fear and bigotry. and that's not okay, no matter who's doing it or who it's being done to. the sooner we all can agree on that the sooner we can start making the world a little better.

No, the person you replied to doesn't know what they are talking about. The social context and power behind misogyny matters.

read the fucking dictionary.

Misogeny? Means you hate women. That's fucking it.

If you didn't put "institutionalized" in front of it, then that's not what we are talking about.

it exists, but I don't think anyone is saying that it's at all on the same scale as misogyny. It doesn't have to be large-scale to just exist as a concept

This. I don't understand why people can't get it. Misandry is a concept that exists. It is not in any way a problem or an issue or a thing that actually has any impact on how society functions, but it's not like "omg you can't come up with the idea of hating men" because, um, dude, I just came up with the idea of hating men, right here. See where I said "the idea of hating men?" That's called coming up with the idea of hating men. I'm not the first person to come up with it. It is possible to imagine, it just doesn't actually have any real-world effects. But it is an idea, and individuals can hold those ideas, even if there's no social structure to uphold it or perpetuate it. It's not remotely comparable to misogyny, but it is a theoretical concept that doesn't destroy the space-time continuum when you think about it.

Sexism against men, on the other hand, is a bullshit idea that by definition makes no sense except in, like, speculative fiction about an alternate universe or another planet with a matriarchal society.

Bingo.

Exactly.

[ SECRET POST #2043 ]

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