fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2054 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2054 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Tracy Beaker Returns/The Dumping Ground]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

23. [SPOILERS for Usagi Drop]

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24. [SPOILERS for Legend of Korra]

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25. [SPOILERS for XXXholic]

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26. [SPOILERS for Revenge]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

27. [WARNING for abuse and rape]

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28. [WARNING for rape]

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[American Horror Story]

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[Sons of Anarchy]

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[08th MS Team]

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34. [WARNING for suicide]

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35. [WARNING for gore, animal abuse]

[American Psycho]

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36. [WARNING for incest]

[Chrono Crusade]

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37. [WARNING for underage]

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38. [WARNING for bullying/abuse]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #293.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Breaking Bad. But he does truly despicable things that can't be blamed on his cancer.

Still, if Walt was all ~hawt~..I'd bet the fandom wouldn't think he's a scumbag.

Yesterday's Gus thread kind of proved that.

Because Gus is super sexy.

IDK, I find Gus pretty attractive.

I think the real issue with Gus, though, is that we saw him becoming more sympathetic while Walt was becoming less sympathetic at the same time. Hermanos and Salud showed Gus having a sufficiently tragic backstory and getting his comeuppance while also taking care of Jesse, while meanwhile Jesse's relationship with Walt was at rock bottom and the guy was freaking out and paranoid and barely in his own story.

He was taking care of Jesse so he could use him to replace Walt. He would have had killed them both if Gale wasn't dead.

Jesus, you talk about people woobifying Walt and you're just as bad with Gus because he has a dead boyfriend. Ugh.

Uh, no. There are a lot of implications, backed up by creator and actor interviews, that Gus had come to view Jesse as a member of his crew at that point*, and had certain sympathies towards him because of what happened with Max. It's possible to few Gus as nothing but a heartless sociopath, I suppose, but I think that cheapens the character, just as viewing Walt as nothing but a suffering hero cheapens his.

At the same time, I don't see anything in my comment that woobifies Gus. I'm explaining why people who hate Walt are into Gus in season four: because Walt is on a downward arc while Gus is simultaneously getting positive development, and because their treatment of Jesse is at extreme opposites at that point. Also, notably, Walt only gets Jesse back by manipulating him, while Gus at that point seems to be treating him as a regular employee (I suppose this is debatable but I don't see how else to read the scene in the hospital).

*ETA: By "that point," I obviously mean after Jesse started working for Mike. Yes, before that, Gus would have killed him if he had the option.

Edited 2012-08-18 04:49 (UTC)

And the scene where Gus stages the robbery for Jesse to stop (or something like that it's been a while) doesn't count as manipulation? I'm sure Gus came to respect him but at the same time he was a replacement for Walt.

Walt cares about Jesse too to the point where mistook his own son for him. So likewise it's not just manipulation with him.

Neither character is black and white but Gus is undoubtedly worse than Walt is so I'm a bit baffled that everyone hates Walt while treating Gus like some sassy HBIC.

As I clarified in my edit, I meant after Jesse is recruited, so I'm not counting that. The implication is that while Gus initially just needed to keep Jesse in line, he ultimately warmed up to him as Mike did and began to see him as part of the crew.

This is what I'm trying to explain: Gus's positive characterization came at the same time as Walt started to spiral. Our last memories of Gus are mostly more positive, while our last memories of Walt are things like poisoning Brock and now threatening Skyler, screwing with Jesse, etc. Is it really that surprising that people tend to hitch their ideas about characters to the memories that stand out most in their minds? I don't think Gus is a ~hero~, I think he's a terrible man. But I did start to find him sympathetic at the end of s4, whereas I couldn't possibly find Walt less sympathetic than I do right now.

Fair enough.

FWIW I had come to have a lot of sympathy for Gus over the course of Season 4 but that went out the window when he threatened to kill Walt's children. Then I was like "Okay, he can die now."

Although I thought Hector was worse so I didn't like the idea of him being the one to kill Gus given what he did to him.

Yeah, I think Hector's inclusion is another element of it, because as bad as Gus is, I think everyone wanted to see him finish his revenge... Instead, he was prevented from that and murdered. In the same episode as Walt poisoned a child and lied to Jesse to make him hate the guy he was starting to like.

And, you know what, I'll cop to it: the Gus and Max story does make me totally sad and sympathetic, because when I see it, I'm like, damn, what would Gus have ended up like if that hadn't happened? Of course, there are also implications that he was up to some scary shit in Chile, so... who knows, I guess. LBR, the mystery also helps a lot, and the high-level competence.

DA

And, you know what, I'll cop to it: the Gus and Max story does make me totally sad and sympathetic, because when I see it, I'm like, damn, what would Gus have ended up like if that hadn't happened?

He'd have become a high-ranking meth dealer?

That's already what he was doing. Maybe not as focused and powerful? Maybe Max would have wound up fearing him like Skyler fears Walt.

I don't know...I think there's obviously a lot of things about Gus that make him more attractive than Walter. We pretty much only see him when he's being competent and a badass. He's got the tragically fridged boyfriend. He deals with Jesse far more smoothly than Walt (though still manipulative and not all that different from Walt in many ways).

But I think that also just makes him a character people like to think the best of, just as Walt is someone you're more likely to think worse of. (Not the worst, since plenty of people still like Walt and see him as cooking meth as some sacrifice for his family.) Gus is much cooler than Walt, and seems more in control, but he's just as vicious.

It reminds me of a cast interview I saw where GE was saying how Gus was really a good guy in his community because he gave back etc. and BC just totally busted out with the "Yes, the meth dealer is really a good guy. Be more delusional." (But less rudely.) I thought GE was kind of busted there. I love it when the actors who play the uglier characters call out the pretty characters that way.

That's the thing, we just don't know. Yes, he would have still become a drug dealer, but Jesse is a drug dealer and I'm pretty sure we all find Jesse sympathetic. I do think the implication is that he certainly would not have been as heartless had Max lived, however.

I agree with the rest of what you've said, though.

but oh my god oh my god it only just occurred to me that you're a Jesse RPer.

Just thought I'd give you the heads up that I'm going to be following you (and the Jane!) at lastvoyages /flailyflail

Oh my goodness /o\ Thank you, I'm very flattered.

Just as a note, Jesse's had about a year of in-game development and two years of development total (he had an IC but out-of-game year away), so he's not quite canon!Jesse anymore. I only say this because I'm about to make a post for him that I know would probably seem super OOC without that warning. >>;

There's also an amazing Jesse and Walt duo at Siren's Pull, which I'm joining with Gus next month :D

HDU, HAVE YOU SEEN BRYAN CRANSTON'S ASS?

but a lot of the fandom DOESN'T think he's a scumbag. there are so many people who will go to bizarre lengths to defend his actions

[ SECRET POST #2054 ]

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this is completely unrelated

Re: this is completely unrelated

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