fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2068 ]

[ SECRET POST #2068 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2068 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Tiger & Bunny]

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02.

[Queer as Folk USA]

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03.

[Devil May Cry]

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04.

[The Key of Awesome! Maroon 5 Payphone Parody: Game of Thrones]

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05.

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06.

[Lorraine Star]

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07. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d194/throwme2thedogs/fablesecret.jpg
[linked for illustrated nudity/porn; Fable]

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08.

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09.

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10.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [SPOILERS for Kamen Rider Fourze]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

12. [WARNING for sexual assault]

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13. [titc #2]

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14. [WARNING for rape, violence]

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15. [WARNING for eating disorders]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #295.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 (warning for abuse) - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 (warning for child abuse) - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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12. [WARNING for sexual assault]
http://i.imgur.com/894hA.png

It was a different time. A shittier time.

What happened in the scene?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-08-31 23:59 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, I love M*A*S*H, but sexual assault certainly happens. And that scene was creepy.

Heck, if we're going by book canon, Trapper's nickname comes from the time he "trapped" a prom queen and had his way with her. Though, to be fair, I don't think the series characters have anything in common with the book characters beyond their names and a fondness for martinis.

It's also movie canon, only I think that story involves a woman in a train bathroom? Which, well, the movie still isn't the show, but it's a bit closer?

I thought the truth of that incident was that they were having consensual sex but when they were discovered, she claimed he had "trapped" her to preserve her own reputation?

Considering multiple assault attempts happened to Houlihan during the show's run, it's really something you have to chalk up to the time it was made.

Which was a crappy time, I'm sure everyone would agree. Especially about this.

I don't remember this happening... Which episode is this from?

But anyway, it's because of the time period. It's very rare to find fiction from back then where sexual assault wasn't handled badly.

What do you hate about how it was handled?

As I recall, it was "Oh, she nearly got raped, isn't that a wacky hijink, naughty naughty rapist buddy of mine, always drinking the last of my soda, leaving the lights on when he leaves the room, and raping people - well, not 'legitimately' raping, because he'd heard that there was a slutty lady on base somewhere, so hey, misunderstandings happen."

Pretty much what Visp said - he came onto her, and when she started screaming, hitting at him [and even beating at him with a cane, iirc], he basically pulled back said something along the lines of 'I like 'em feisty!' and kept going.

When Hawkeye and Trapper showed up the entire thing was played off as a joke - and this is after they pranked her [at the very least she was one of the victims of the prank], so that he had already basically tried jumping her because of how said prank was set up.

It's from the '70's. Every American movie/TV series that was supposed to be at all edgy/gritty had sexual assault/rape.

I wish I was being facetious.

New anon:

Here's the thing, in M.A.S.H. with Margaret, it was never played as grim and gritty. It was always played for laughs. That this, glances at previous secret, woman with the slutty reputation (Hot Lips nickname, affair with the married Frank Burns, repeated implications that she's slept with every general in the Pacific Theatre) is getting felt up by some random horny guy and suddenly she acts shocked and tries to fight him off.

She's 'easy', but for this creep she's screaming and slapping and struggling, and that's supposed to be the joke.

In some respects we've come a long way from that. In others, not so much.

I've noticed this, huh.

Now that I think about it, it probably makes me subconsciously less likely to watch movies from that era (Flashdance gave me the creeps) but also read classic sci fi? I just get thrown out of the story the moment the hero is described as "violently shaking" the heroine. Who does that?! How is it romantic?!

Protip

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-04 00:28 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Protip

littlestbirds - 2012-09-04 01:03 (UTC) - Expand

(deleted comment)

Oh my god, yes, thank you! I know it was the 70's and all, but this scene, the episode where the female colonel accuses Frank of trying to rape her and the boredom/"what are we supposed to do about it?" attitude of everyone is played for laughs, and Hawkeye's jokes about rape make me uncomfortable. Which sucks, because I otherwies enjoy this show.

I've never seen the series, but I've seen the movie and it is ridiculously sexist, even for 1970. I love 1970s Altman, but sometimes I just shake my head and mutter why why why...

I really, really hate it too. But, well, you have to remember when it was made. Not at all an excuse, just an explanation.

But it sucks and disgusts me. So basically, word, anon. Word.

Uh - people disagree with you? I've always hated that particular story line, and there a couple where Margaret is 'pranked' by having someone jump her and it's really so very uncool and horrifying.

Not only does anyone stop to think how terrifying it is to go into your private living quarters and be attacked, but to have everyone else just laugh it off - blech.

OP

I know a lot of people who get very defensive if you say anything bad about it.

(no subject)

tabaqui - 2012-09-01 01:51 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-01 01:54 (UTC) - Expand

Yeah, in a lot of ways M*A*S*H was a product of its time (still very frustrating though) but they had some episodes that were a bit progressive. I remember one with a plot that involved a gay soldier (who had done something very heroic if I recall and that's why he was injured?) and Frank was all like "well this is an abomination and haven't you people ever read the bible and blarghity blargh" and Hawkeye and Trapper (Or was it BJ?) were like "Stfu up Frank, this guy is pretty awesome and who cares who he wants to sleep with?". I liked that one

Yeah, I agree (and I think most other M*A*S*H fans also acknowledge that the show had problematic elements. Well, the reasonable ones anyway. I loved the hell out of that show and I'll till admit that it handled some things pretty poorly).

But mostly I wanted to comment on this secret because Margaret was my favorite character. She was such a hardass sometimes (especially in the beginning) and often played the role of an antagonist with Frank (though she was a much more likable/sympathetic character), but they gave her a lot of great moments and I just loved her so much.

I remember one Margaret centered episode that really just got to me (I can't remember the title). It was the one where tensions between her and the other nurses were boiling over because they thought she was too inflexible with the rules (and she was) and Margaret thought they weren't respectful enough towards her (they weren't). Everything eventually came to a head when Margaret punished a nurse by putting her under house (or tent, I guess) arrest while the nurse's husband got a one day pass to see his wife. Of course everyone conspired to sneak the nurse out and when Margaret found out, she finally lost it. When she broke down in tears and confessed that she was so hard on them because she felt like they were always excluding her and never invited her to join in on their activities or share their private jokes with her and that she didn't understand why they disliked her enough to never even offer that to her, she felt like a very relatable character to me (and I criiiiiied). I always liked those moments where it showed that she wasn't such an unreasonable stick in the mud and had a playful and a more human side.

lol, sorry for the rambling but I almost never get to talk about my Margaret love.

I was born in '71 and MASH was one of the shows I used to watch with my dad. It had some quality elements, very, very good writing, and I remember loving most of the episodes.

Margaret was my second favorite character (after Charles Emerson Winchester the Third), even in the early years, because she demonstrated very human traits. She was compassionate and professional and kick ass in her job, but didn't always make awesome choices privately. The episode you mentioned was one of my absolute favorites (I can still hear the catch in her voice when she's telling the nurses about hearing them laugh as she passes by, literally on the outside) because you could really detect the choice the writers made, when they decided to humanize her a little more for the audience.

Here's the thing though, it's probably a realistic scene. Within the canon. Given the way the characters are, and because it's set in the 1950s as well. Hawkeye is so sexist, and what he does to lure the guy to do the surgery is very in character. It's awful but I don't think it's unlikely at all. I never liked that episode, it felt really tasteless to me.

I agree it's problematic for a comedy, but I think M.A.S.H was very dark and not always meant to be laughed at. In Britain it didn't have a laugh track, which is something they argued for, I know I've seen Alan Alda say that they didn't want a laugh track, and it wasn't all meant to be funny. They were forced to include one in the US against their wishes. I've watched it with the laugh track abroad and here in Britain without and it makes a huge difference because some of it just isn't funny. Even if Hawkeye thinks it's funny, we don't have to, I'm with Margaret there, and not amused, more horrified by it.

I love Margaret, one of my favourite lines in all of M.A.S.H. is when Frank is trying to crawl back to her and he puts his hand on her arm, and she says "Frank, you can move your hand, or lose it".

(no subject)

astridv - 2012-09-01 08:54 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-01 16:27 (UTC) - Expand

The early seasons of MASH are... uncomfortable. Haven't watched it in a while but it definitely got better as it went along.

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