fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2068 ]

[ SECRET POST #2068 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2068 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Tiger & Bunny]

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02.

[Queer as Folk USA]

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03.

[Devil May Cry]

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04.

[The Key of Awesome! Maroon 5 Payphone Parody: Game of Thrones]

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05.

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06.

[Lorraine Star]

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07. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d194/throwme2thedogs/fablesecret.jpg
[linked for illustrated nudity/porn; Fable]

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08.

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09.

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10.

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

11. [SPOILERS for Kamen Rider Fourze]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

12. [WARNING for sexual assault]

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13. [titc #2]

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14. [WARNING for rape, violence]

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15. [WARNING for eating disorders]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #295.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 (warning for abuse) - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 (warning for child abuse) - take it to comments ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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This is going to make me sound like a total wimp.

I am really fine with calmly talking about most controversial things. I think sharing ideas is important, and I think everyone has something worthwhile to add to the collective opinions of the world etc.

However.

Whenever I (am forced to) discuss evolution with hardcore creationists, I end up either irrationally angry for days or in an existential crisis of "is anything real then, really?" I just feel so stupid because I don't feel like I can properly explain the argument out of the blue and they have their plan for their argument all wrapped up in their brain and then I flounder and they make me question whether I can trust if anything is scientifically valid and they're like "the answer is God" and I'm like "I have mixed feelings about God" and then I just feel confused and angry and shitty for days.

Is there a polite way of telling hardcore people that I just don't want to talk about it? I know I sound really intolerant and wimpy and 'cry moar', but it just fucks with my brain.

What about you, also f!S? Do you have anything weird that it really stresses you out to argue about?

In my experience, it's hard to have any sort of meaningful conversation with people whose default answer is "my sacred text that was written thousands of years ago says so" or "my deity says so." I would love to have a rational give and take convo with my evangelical parents about their beliefs, but it isn't possible. I have never in 33 years had a productive conversation with them about religious, social, or political issues. Sometimes, they say things that are so foul or ridic that I just get mad and pipe up, and I always regret it. Always. So I have learned that walking away, changing the subject, or refusing to talk about certain topics are the only way I can keep my sanity with my family.

*hugs*

Just say that you respect their right to their own opinion and you'd rather not discuss it. If they are persistent, put in some headphones and ignore them. Eventually, they'll go bother someone else hopefully.

Arguing in general just stresses me out, but it's more that certain people are worse for them than certain topics. I'm not very good with speaking and I trip over my words a lot, so people who are eloquently and calmy nasty get me worked up.

It's just like, most of these people are good friends, and I don't want to be rude, but it legitimately has the capacity to make me feel anxious about life and wonder if anything is real :/

Arguing in general stresses me out too <3

You might have to be a little rude in order to maintain the friendship. "I'm sorry, can we talk about this some other time?" is a perfectly legit request.

While I can see how the people being good friends brings its own challenges (and might make this more stressful), I also think it can be a little more natural to broach stuff like this with friends than with, say, strangers or coworkers. It depends on the people, of course, but ideally, a good friendship should be able to survive some emotional honesty.

I would probably try being honest without putting myself on the line too much, or sounding like I'm insulting their beliefs. Something like, "This isn't personal, but talking about stuff like this makes me really uncomfortable, and I'd rather not get into it."

If they don't respect your feelings, and they don't get the hint when you don't engage them in discussion, then I think a little rudeness (or at least bluntness) is justified.

In my experience, talking with anyone who is hardcore believing in anything about said belief if you don't agree with it only leads to pain.

Getting into arguments with people I respect or like tends to stress me out regardless of subject matter, especially if it ends up unresolved by the time one of us leaves/signs off. I get weird anxiety jitters over it--even if I do end up still believing I was justified.

Yeah, I usually just say something along the lines of "It's not something I want to discuss with you." Because I get irrationally angry and frustrated and then when I get really emotional my words disappear and I can't explain anything, and then the less I can properly articulate the more the creationists think they're winning and the more frustrated I get. And then I'm pissed off for the rest of the day.

Most people I've said "I'm not discussing this with you" or some variation, they don't mind. If someone's going to be a huge ass about it just walk away.

It's just so shitty because people I have met treat me like I'm an intolerant bastard instead of a person who doesn't want to sound stupid in a 200 year old argument backed up by thousands of scientists.

Or else the person arguing is a dear friend, and I don't even know how to feel because she is also a scientist and is intelligent yet she believes this thing, so who's to say I'm not wrong and everyone isn't wrong forever and angst.

And then she's like "You're so cool, I'm so glad we can calmly talk about our opinions with each other, I can't do this with a lot of my other friends" and I'm like "Heh. Yep. I won't be out of sorts for days at all."

You don't sound intolerant! or wimpy!

I totally get what you mean too... It's like, you know that those people have the upper hand simply by having god in their rhetoric, no matter how wrong they are, and it's infuriating. It doesn't matter how rational you are trying to explain your point, the minute they make the discussion into a "christian versus atheist" it becomes a non-discussion and instead a game of self persecution that christians just love to play.

I wish I had good advice on this. =/ Most of the time I just let them run their mouths and when they say something that is contradicted by the bible/by what they said previously I point it out to them. It happens surprisingly often and usually they get too embarrassed to keep going, if they know you can pick their hypocrisy apart.

Arguing with anyone who's extremely set in their ways is futile, as far as I'm concerned. Some of my family members are the kind of white people who think they're the worst victims of racism in America and no facts, studies, or articles I tell them about - or try to give them - get through. All sources are biased, statistics are skewed, everyone's so obsessed with being PC they ignore the white people, it's all a conspiracy, blah blah blah. I've gotten upset in the middle of arguments with them and they don't understand why. So, now... I just change the subject when I sense it might be heading there. That's the best I can do.

I've found that having any sort of constructive debate with hardcore people is practically impossible. Although I do know of a guy who outbored Jehovah witnesses who were trying to convince him that evolution is a myth (http://english.bouletcorp.com/2010/12/04/jehovahs-witnesses-part-01/)

I personally hate arguments but I'm even less of a fan of people wanting to shove their opinions down my throat. So maybe you can try to deflect the subject when you feel it coming up in the discussion, avoid the subject altogether if you can and if it comes up, you can say you respect and understand your friends' opinions and that you value their friendship too much to have what is essentially a useless (but potentially hurtful for all parties involved) debate with two sides talking at each other but never able to come to an agreement.

bean dip (verb) The act of redirecting conversation to a seperate and hopefully neutral topic, and other topic diversions from rude inquiries and discussions. "Have you tried the bean dip?"
Variations: "So, did you see the Chicago Bears game yesterday?" and "Isn't the weather just dreadful?"

If you need to be blunt, "I don't talk about [subject]" said firmly and followed with bean dipping. Repeat as necessary.

Going to agree with

cherrycoloured about hating arguing in general, but especially about religion. Like, seriously, WHY IS THIS EVEN A THING WE NEED TO ARGUE ABOUT? It's just so stupid to me; you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I believe! But it does frustrate me when someone tries to say your way is wrong; just let it go, people.

Also, closely related: gay people/gay rights. Fuck do I hate arguing about gay people and gay rights. Just...arg. It makes me want to lock myself in a room and just not talk for the rest of the day.

"especially about religion. Like, seriously, WHY IS THIS EVEN A THING WE NEED TO ARGUE ABOUT"

because the Bible-beaters, 99 out of 100 of them, do not actually READ the book they beat.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2023:15&version=NKJV

Surefire, proven, and guaranteed to instantly shut down any Baptist, Evangelical, SDA, or JW. Have not tried it on Mormons. I imagine it would have similar successful results with anyone trying to proselytize something they claim is Christianity. Though the JWs are a special case: they are king of the proof-text: as long as you know the Bible, and the verses they cherry-pick, in their actual social and textual contexts, you are golden, and can argue them into the ground.

Re: Weird Brain Thing

(Anonymous) - 2012-09-04 01:18 (UTC) - Expand

Re: Weird Brain Thing

elaminator - 2012-09-04 01:57 (UTC) - Expand

I'm a creationist if you had to give me a label, but I feel for you because I'm the same as you, but more extreme. In person I very, VERY rarely am able to talk about controversial or difficult things with any since of logical clarity--I'm just not at all good at controlling my emotions, so stuff spills out of me, even stuff that I realize in hindsight was really irrational and stupid, and not something that I actually believe.

I'm trying to get better about this, BUT if you're realy uncomfortable about it? Just...tell people you don't want to talk about it. Seriously. Anyone who's worth your time should, hopefully, respect your discomfort and back off. If they don't, just...walk away, if you have any ability to.

That's my 2 cents, anyway.

Reproductive choice and abortion. I know exactly how I feel about it. I know the points and the reasons I feel that way about it. I'm not a kid; I've had lots of decades to think about it. And I still get overly angry dealing with someone who is anti-letting someone make a choice over her own body in favor of a fetus. So I probably don't make my points sometimes as well as I'd like.

Oh boy, I can sympathize, OP.
I went to a school where our science teacher was a creationist, and I was an evolutionist. (Ironically, we're both Christians.) We watched a video that claimed humans were roaming around with dinosaurs and that all animals were originally herbivores. I ended up having a debate with the teacher over molars and incisors, because clearly there are different teeth for different jobs.

Another example is my dad, who has some very strong opinions when it comes to refugees & asylum seekers. He will sit me down and talk loudly at me. The only way to stop him is to change the topic.

That day, I learned that with some people, there's just no point arguing. They will never change their minds. So, I make sure I know what their buttons are, and avoid pressing them.

I guess there's no stopping people to believe what they want to believe, but how is that even allowed to be taught at school? The European mind boggles.

I don't understand how anyone could ever let someone who doesn't accept the foundation of modern biology teach general science. Just. What.

i don't like arguments, period. i think they're pointless. it's always about sides, and to me, there are no sides, just truth. i don't care if i'm the one to point it out, or if it's my mortal enemy who does it. so i like discussing things with people who also don't like arguing and just like to uncover the truth.

That very topic generally stresses me out more when it involves my family. They're so very Christian and I'm so very atheist and I get uncomfortable/argumentative when they get in their 'God is good' moods and it's so awkward as hell. Being a science major (astronomy and physics) would help me build a case if I wanted to actually argue it out with them, buuuut I'd rather not.

I also get weird around homophobic people. I'm straight, but once at work this lady was at my till and (I can't remember how the topic came up) she said she'd 'die' if her son ever turned out gay and I just gave her a weird/disgusted look and said 'but it's your son' and she said she'd still love him but that it would change things, and I said no he's still a human being/the same person, and it just got awkward. The convo bothered me for such a long time though. I just hope I gave her something to think about :(

I don't bother with evo debates anymore. The creationist side is really stupid and I start flipping tables when they talk about either heaven, or try to imply that the big bang and evolution are the same thing

I did once have to tell someone, "I'm sorry, but I can't continue this conversation", and then I went and stood somewhere else at the party.

It was at the point they were telling me that the EU killed 6 million Jews in WW2, and that's why we shouldn't do anything with Europe...

You could try acting very concerned and saying, "Is this something you feel you need to discuss? Why do you suppose that is? Do you have something you need to get off your chest?" and generally hint that they may be acting very desperate for validation and see if that shuts them up. Don't give in to actually arguing about the topic. Instead, make it all about them.

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