Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-09-16 03:23 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-09-16 03:23 pm
[ SECRET POST #2084 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2084 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 094 secrets from Secret Submission Post #298.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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Plus, he flat-out accepted Bruce and Hawkeye with nothing other than word-of-mouth good reviews; no judgement there either. ;D
The 'that's the only word I care about' scene with Bruce especially. If anything Steve is really very accepting.
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(Anonymous) 2012-09-17 04:48 am (UTC)(link)As for seeing the footage? Well, he must've seen the footage of Tony diva-ing it up at the Expo, the racecar track, announcing "I am Iron Man", etc, and jumped to the conclusion that Tony was nothing but a glory hound. If he had seen footage of Tony having a meltdown at the podium after returning from Afghanistan, he was being intentionally cruel by saying those things (which is why I'm gonna assume he didn't see or at least didn't understand that piece of footage), and if he hadn't, he was too uninformed to make those kinds of statements. That's why his words were so out of line: the fact that he didn't know anything about Tony and was judging him based on basically zero evidence.
Of course, people go completely overboard screaming about how Steve's a big meanie meanie meanface who was purposely trying to hurt Tony because he's so meeeeeeaaaan rather than simply calling it like he saw it and standing up for his beliefs and the value of his dead friends, and when he was obviously being affected by the scepter and would never have been that openly cruel without it, but the words were still nasty as hell.
Now, it's hardly a "poor Tony" scenario because, uh, well, Tony pretty much does everything he can to project the persona of an unconcerned selfish asshole and if you do that, it's your fault if people believe it. Also, yeah, he started the bickering, what did he expect? It's more of a "wow, Steve, that was uncalled for no matter who you were talking to" scenario.
(before you ask, Steve's actually my second favorite character after Natasha, but I was really fascinated by this one moment where he spoke without thinking and accidentally let slip such an accidentally-personal putdown without even knowing it. Because it's such a small moment, if you think about it, which so little thought or buildup put into it, and yet it leaves such an impact. And the later gutpunch at the climax of the movie -- I'm gonna come right out and say that the expression on Steve's face when he told Natasha to close the portal and when he thought Tony was dead was even more gutwrenching to me than Tony's face when his call to Pepper failed. Because it was such a small thing that Steve said, really, but now he'd never be able to apologize or forget it. It's kind of like him putting off signing Coulson's trading cards only to never get the chance to sign them because Coulson died. A tiny mistake that could've happened to anyone but happened in such a way that it would stick in his mind forever).
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(Anonymous) 2012-09-17 05:28 am (UTC)(link)Low blows on both counts, seriously, but I hate it when people bring up one without the other. :/
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(Anonymous) 2012-09-17 06:33 am (UTC)(link)Oh no, I just wasn't really focusing on what Tony said, because I think it takes away from a good analysis to go "but this one was worse!" or "but the other guy said this!" Obviously Tony was a huge dick to Steve, but that wasn't exactly the point I was making, which was that it didn't matter if Tony was a saint or a complete monster, either way Steve's comment was totally uninformed.
But yup, I hate it when people try to get into a pissing contest about who was worse. They were both completely immature and out of line there (which I totally looooooved, btw ;))
I think people focus more on Tony than Steve because Steve just kind of eyerolls Tony's comment away while the look on Tony's face is completely shattered. Since Chris Evans showed himself to be excellent at facial reactions, I'm guessing it was a directoral decision to show that Steve actually didn't give a shit what Tony said about him. But from the same logic I just used about Steve's comment: that doesn't make Tony's comment any less mean-spirited from his intent.
GAH I love the fact that this movie makes it possible for me to try to interpret the actions of characters I love in the most assholish light possible :) It's so refreshing, having a fandom whose characters' likability is so strong I can bash and insult them to kingdom come and not have my adoration of them tarnished at all. :D
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(Anonymous) 2012-09-17 06:40 am (UTC)(link)But ITA that bashing Steve but not Tony for his douchiness in that exchange is also totally hypocritical and shallow. Because wow, just because Steve hurt Tony so badly doesn't mean Tony was any less of a jerk.
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I don't think Steve's words were okay, but holding them against him and not Tony's words against him is yeah, a big problem. And I don't think that snapping at him to that degree (when holding the staff, mind) automatically places him as a judgmental person, namely because it's a) one situation and b) imo is PRESENTED as a really, really unusual thing and in contrast to his normal behavior.
In any case, I don't agree that Steve's words even hurt him that badly? They upset him, but they hardly broke his heart imo.
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(Anonymous) 2012-09-17 06:54 am (UTC)(link)no subject
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And I hate it when people judge reaction harder than intent. Sure, Steve hurt Tony more than Tony hurt Steve, but Tony was totally more dickish than Steve was. That's, like, the whole point of their characters. Tony is a massive blustering harmless asshole who no one takes seriously and Steve is such a good nice upstanding guy that the rare times he says something dickish it makes people gasp.
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(Anonymous) 2012-09-17 04:59 am (UTC)(link)Not knocking Steve, but he was assuming Bruce would obviously not want to talk about his problem, but Bruce was constantly joking about the Hulk and referencing the Hulk and trying to get a response and make people stop being so fake and pretending the Hulk wasn't the elephant in the room, and everyone just Stepford-Smiled at him and pretended nothing was wrong and the emperor totally had clothes on until Tony waltzed in going "trololol you're so cool and so is your giant green personality disorder".
So that line was incredibly sweet and compassionate and accepting of Steve, but it was also kinda judgmental.
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(Anonymous) 2012-09-17 05:31 am (UTC)(link)That's your interpretation. Mine says that Bruce was pleasant surprised by Tony's Tony-ness, but it's a pretty well known fact that no one is more scared of Bruce than Bruce. I seriously doubt he wanted the blanket acceptance/acknowledgement on any conscious level.
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Pretty sure he was just saying that his Hulk problem was irrelevant to how he viewed him as a person.
I don't think that Bruce was joking about the Hulk thing because he wanted everyone to talk about it. I think he was doing so because he was uncomfortable with the fact that everyone there knew and was trying to make light of it as a defense reaction.
I mean how was Steve supposed to react in a way that wouldn't be 'judgmental' in your eyes? Because if he'd been forward in talking about Bruce's problem, wouldn't he be assuming that he did want to talk about it?
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And I get annoyed when people feel the need to bash other characters when they're discussing how awesome Tony and Bruce's connection is, because fuck you guys, their connection is ALREADY awesome all on its own and you don't need to tear down all Bruce's other connections to make it any more awesome. In fact, tearing down everyone else makes it seem less awesome. The point was that everyone else's reaction to Bruce was great, while Tony's was amazing. Not that everyone else's reaction was horrible and assholish and Tony's was just marginally decent.
It's basically the friendship-equivalent of shippers tearing down every single love interest and friendship and romantic feeling Character X ever had in order to lift up Character X's One True Love as the only person in the universe who gives a single shit about Character X, with the effect of making Character X look like someone who is so bereft of emotional connections they settle for the first person who treats them in a marginally acceptable fashion, and turning the OTP into a horrible co-dependent farce of a relationship (I've been exposed to too much Buffy/Spike recently, can you tell?).
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