fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2085 ]

[ SECRET POST #2085 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2085 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 077 secrets from Secret Submission Post #298.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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How can perfection be overrated?

IDGI.

lol. I kid, I kid.

I think she's actually a rather divisive character which I think makes her stans more OTT as a defense mechanism?

Idk. I do love her to death though.

Yeah, this isn't really that unpopular an opinion. I loved her as a character but hated how she was basically elevated to ~the most important person ever~ both by some fans and eventually RTD himself.

This. Rose is awesome. Rose as supposedly the Doctor's "true love" was not. Rose coming back in season 4 after her story was over was not.

I kind of liked her better when she came back. I just wish she hadn't come back bent on loving the Doctor forevaa. I liked her as a strong mentor-type for Donna and then a badass in the...war or whatever. But when I saw NuWho from the beginning, I didn't like her as much.

Honestly, the reason I don't like Rose as much is because I have been nastily attacked by stans, so. Not Rose's fault.

Why would Donna need her as a mentor? Donna did just fine on her own. I think they were both on equal levels, though different, in terms of what they brought to the Doctor.

In fact, Turn Left bugged me because it was all "Rose knows everything, Rose is perfect, Rose is the center of attention even though the episode was supposed to be about Donna".

Okay, mentor was the wrong word. But as a kind of guide. And saying how awesome Donna was. Again, it's got to be because I didn't start out with Rose, so this was how I first saw her. *shrugs* I can't express it right but I still liked Turn Left a ton.

Her story wasn't over at "Doomsday" tho.

It should have been.

Really? You think her character arc was finished with Rose sobbing on a beach? That was a satisfying conclusion to her character for you?

Well, it wasn't for me. Rose's journey in series 2 is all about her learning how to be a hero in her own right. We definitely got to see some of that towards the end of series 2 (especially in The Satan Pit and Fear Her), but I felt like Turn Left was a much better ending for her. In Turn Left we get to see Rose being a competent leader who has the respect of UNIT. She is basically the Doctor in a universe without the Doctor.

The other major component of Rose's storyline was her relationship with the Doctor which was obviously unresolved in series 2. She tells him that she loves him, but before he can reply, he disappears. So she's kind of left hanging. I would never argue that the Cloen storyline was masterfully written, but I do think it served to bring the story some closure. Rose ends up with a Doctor of her own. And I think that is a much better ending to her story than alone and sobbing on a beach without hearing an "I love you".

There shouldn't have been a sappy angsty love story and you know what a lot of companions have left under really shitty circumstances. But noooo Rose has to be special doesn't she?

"shouldn't have been". Lol. Ok. Who died and made you show runner?

And sorry that the storytelling on the show has matured since the show was conceived in the 60s?

Both Martha and Donna were brought back after their departures to give more closure to their stories, so it's not like Rose is so special. RTD obviously just liked giving his characters closure.

And I don't agree. Nor do I think the treatment of companions leaving has anything to do with "the storytelling of the show". At least before RTD the writers realized that the main character was the Doctor.

Why do you have a hard on for defending Rose's shitty arc? It wasn't well written and it wasn't played out well. Even people I know that LOVE Rose thought RTD did her a disservice by dragging her out over and over again.

I would have rather Rose learned to live without the Doctor and learn that having a man (or man shaped Alien) isn't the end all be all and that she could have a happy life without being obsessed with him.

Now who is the one treating the person they are talking to like an idiot?

When RTD rebooted the show he changed the way stories were told on it and I loved it. I loved that the focus was on the companions. Tbh, I don't care all that much about the Doctor as a character. I loved Rose and Martha and Donna and I loved that we really got to konw them and that they each had their own story.

And I defend Rose's arc because I don't think it's shitty. :)

I don't think it's perfect. But I think it's good and I think it's fairly well-constructed. Rose starts out as a shop girl who has no future and doesn't know what she wants in life. In series 1 the Doctor shows her the universe and she knows that is what she wants. She wants to travel with the Doctor. And she FIGHTS for it. In series 2, she becomes more competent in that role that she'd decided that she wanted. Her story becomes complete when we see her again in series 4 and we see that she has basically become a version of the Doctor.

Pro-tip: Women aren't worthless just because they love a man. She presumably had a decent life in Pete's World, but that doesn't mean she doesn't also want to be with the Doctor. And why shouldn't she want to be with the man she loves? There's no shame in that. And Rose fights for what she wants.

I love this comment. And honestly, I loved the focus on the companions to because - hey, guess what - they're more like real people than the Doctor will ever be. I'd rather watch a shop girl who wants something more from life, or a med student on top of her academics but struggling through her personal life, or a temp who's made it through half her life only to wonder where it all went... be exposed to this wondrous but danger-filled thing and grow as people while retaining the core of themselves that makes them who they are.

Stories that focus on the Doctor can get a bit boring since a lot of them always seem to turn into how great and immortal and noble and tortured and witty and let-this-character-narrate-how-perfect-and-mysterious he is. The Doctor isn't making huge character development leaps every season simply because of how old he is and how long he's been around.

It's the companions who change, the companions that add their own unique spice to the show, and for that reason, yeah, I loved it when the companions had the focus.

I agree with all of this.

I get the impression that people think Rose was thrown back in S4 as fanservice. But RTD planned Doctor #2 ever since Ten's hand got lopped off in TCI. (At least I think I remember hearing about that from The Writer's Tale.)

I do think there were problems with how it all went down in JE, but as far as Rose hopping universes after the Daleks pulled down the walls - I have zero problems with her going after what she wants.

That's what I love most about Rose's arc: she goes from an aimless drifter to someone who goes after what she wants. (Stunningly enough, when she does make decisions for her own life, fandom has called her selfish. Because apparently every good person must stay with their parents FOREVER and never live their own lives. FANDOM. WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR BRAIN?)

I like how any time a person disagrees with you or says something you don't like you treat them like they're an idiot. It's really endearing and doesn't make you seem like a horrible person at all.

And I like the way you have the courage to hide behind anonymity. It's touching. :')

DA

We're all effectively anonymous, the idea that an icon and a DW account make you not-anon and therefore "brave" is equally 'touch~~ing~~ed'. It makes no f-ing difference in practice. Unless you plan to spam their journal with your butthurt *Rose is teh greatest companion evar* comments?
Or can I assume I can look up 'fauxkaren' in your local phone book?
Also, protip: using the phrase 'protip' in that condescending, 'let me lecture you about reality and how you should think exactly as I do because of my learnings' way, makes you sound like a massive arse.

(no subject)

fauxkaren - 2012-09-18 21:38 (UTC) - Expand

The person she disagreed with, however, was all sunshine and rainbows and didn't at all behave as if their opinion on a work of fiction was objective fact.

I agree that Turn Left would have been the perfect ender for her. It wasn't my favorite episode, but it was a good ender for her. Journey's End, on the other hand...

Yeah, the Rose episodes were great. Rose as the relationship singularity that warped development when the series should have been about Martha and Donna less so.

This. Especially Martha's season.

Man, I actually dig the consequential aspect of Rose and the Doctor's intense attachment to each other. Ten was so involved with Rose that it negatively affected the Doctor's subsequent relationships with that came after her. I like that Ten eventually acknowledges that he goofed up when it came to Martha, and did some questionable stuff in front of Donna that she had to shake him up a bit for him to realize that he was not okay. I like the fact it it was messy and complicated, as it should be when unresolved and unrequited feelings are involved.

~the most important person ever~ both by some fans and eventually RTD himself.

This really annoyed me too, then Moffat told us more about River.

And... Rose just doesn't seem as bad in retrospect. I still hated her elevation to most important during RTD run, but at least she's not River.

This. Rose hate generates reactionary Rose love. It's self-perpetuating.

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