case: (Default)
Case ([personal profile] case) wrote in [community profile] fandomsecrets2012-09-20 07:02 pm

[ SECRET POST #2088 ]


⌈ Secret Post #2088 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 021 secrets from Secret Submission Post #298.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

(Anonymous) 2012-09-21 04:01 am (UTC)(link)
""It's not so much about going "better make this character black/female/gay to fill a quota" as it is looking at your cast and thinking, "Hm. Is there a reason that character needs to be male? Why not make that character Hispanic?" etc. It's not quite tokening (especially if the writer just continues to write that character as a person first and not an icon of whatever subgroup the character is "representing."""

That, to me, is where the big issue lies. Writers will sometimes get so much flack for 'not' making a character an icon, or gleaming paragon, of their race/sexuality. The flak is even thicker if the writer is white, and they 'get something wrong', (no mater how minute the error), when writing a character of a different race or ethnicity.

Sadly it can quickly become a no-win situation for the author.



truxillogical: (Default)

[personal profile] truxillogical 2012-09-21 04:11 am (UTC)(link)
Self-defeating prophecy, though. Writers get flack for whatever they do, race/gender-related or not. Might as well try. And if there is criticism about how the writer handles it, then why not listen to that criticism, see if any of it sounds valid, and learn from it for a future book.

Heck, it's not much different than, say, in the current Captain Marvel series. The writer got something wrong about how a plane worked in the first issue (the character is a pilot). A reader pointed it out. The writer thanked them and took that into consideration if the plane comes up again. Archers frequently point out when an artist gets Green Arrow or Hawkeye's basic form wrong. If they have a good point and aren't just being pedantic, the artist usually learns from it.

I realize race or gender is way more touchy a subject than prop planes and archery, but my point (I think I had one) is that hanging back and not taking a risk because it might turn out wrong is just shoddy writing. Creativity always involves risk. If we didn't have creators willing to work outside their comfort zone, we'd never have had Rucka's Batwoman, or Gail Simone's Secret Six. We wouldn't have adorable guys like Jaime Reyes and Miles Morales hanging around being awesome.

If you're gonna get flack whatever you do, it's always a risk. Might as well make it worth it.

(Anonymous) 2012-09-21 04:15 am (UTC)(link)
Ahh but you see unlike planes, and archery, the flack is less "Let us help you to correct that." and more "Your ignorant/raciest/scumbag!" and could potentially damage a writers whole career, and life.

Sometimes the risk is a bit to high, and I think thats why so many 'play it safe'.

truxillogical: (Default)

[personal profile] truxillogical 2012-09-21 05:08 am (UTC)(link)
But any kind of writing with impact runs that risk. No, archery and planes are small potatoes, technicalities at best, but if you're writing with no risk, you're turning out...well, Grisham fiction. Something mass-produced and simple.

The idea that an honest mistake will result in permanent damage to a writer's career and life takes a hyperbolic situation to such a paranoid extreme that anyone that worried about it probably doesn't have the stomach to be a writer. A mistake of that caliber could really only come from true ignorance on the writer's part--a steadfast refusal to do research or branch out from what the writer themselves knows from personal experience. But the idea that it would damage their career...unlikely.

Grisham and Danielle Steele and Nora Roberts play it safe. That goes well for them, I'm sure, but I really hope no one sets out in the writing game with the actual intention of being another Nora Roberts, writing the same thing more or less over and over again, with slight tweaks, for the same people who don't want anything scary or new.

Good writing upsets people. Mistakes are made, and those upset people. Harlan Ellison upsets people. Mark Twain upset people. Neil Gaiman upsets people. Gail Simone upsets people. Jim Butcher upsets people. Octavia Butler upsets people. Sometimes a work is upsetting on purpose and sometimes it's by mistake, but if a writer is genuinely so terrified of upsetting people by taking an educated risk in a story that they can't venture outside of their comfort zone, they're probably only writing the blandest of milquetoast anyway.


(Unless we're talking about fanfic. I mean, hell, it's fanfic, write whatever the heck you want. But if we're talking professional writing--which I'm assuming, given the "career damaging" comment above--then no. The craven worry that "someone will take this the wrong way" has no place, and is nothing but an excuse to not push yourself to grow as a writer. A writer should always be taking chances because a writer should never be anything but honest, and honesty is always risky. There can be legitimate reasons for a work not featuring any or many characters outside your comfort zone, but fear should never be one of them.)
Edited 2012-09-21 05:12 (UTC)

(Anonymous) 2012-09-21 09:03 am (UTC)(link)
This was wonderful! Thank you for typing all of that out. It is a clear diamond amid all of the unpleasantly sobering mess earlier in the thread. SHEESH, finally someone that gets it.

The same is to be said for ANY creative process. If you aren't stepping on somebodies toes somewhere along the line, what is your work really worth?

There is only one thing worse than being hated. And that's being forgettable.

(Anonymous) 2012-09-21 04:02 pm (UTC)(link)
My god, all of this. All of it forever.

I just wish other people understood this as well. it seems like so many would rather read dull, numbing complacent stories, than something that challenges their mind, not to mention 'being offended', for a group that is not their own.

Some of us just want a good story.

(Anonymous) 2012-09-21 08:07 am (UTC)(link)
Um, I really don't know almost anyone at all who wants black characters portrayed as gleaming paragons of blackness, or the same for women. Most of the complaints I see are about this very thing - black people, for example, written as either "magical" tokens or negative stereotypes. if you just write them as people, or write the characters first and assign race later (assuming racism is not an integral part of your theme/plot) you honestly shouldn't have a problem