fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2099 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2099 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 085 secrets from Secret Submission Post #300.
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Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Same here. :( It seems like a good portion of the fandom hates Lisa, though. I think that's really unfair.

To be fair, Lisa was awesome when she first appeared, but she pretty much became a plot device the longer she was around, so I don't blame fans for getting sick of her. She went from a firey single mother who would tell Dean off for being a bad influence on her son, to a bland smile whose sole purpose was to comfort Dean and to manufacture a bit of angst when it came time for him to choose between her and his brother. (And since every single viewer knew that he wasn't going to choose her in the end, no one cared)

Plus, Dean's year with her made very little sense (A violent, alcoholic, suicidal, antisocial, monster-hunter who grew up in a car, spent 40 years in hell and has been suffering from life-long PTSD, is suddenly able to hold down a steady job, pay bills, raise a teenager, and carry on a long-term romantic relationship? And it was "The best year of her life"? Just no).

Lisa and Ben could have been fascinating. They could have been interesting enough so that we'd actually believe Dean loved them, as opposed to staying because he had no where else to go, and then out of guilt. They could have been a great tragedy to add to the list, but they were so poorly conceived and written that no one gave a shit.

Of course, that's SPN's main problem with love interests, they don't write them as 'people', they write them as attractive walking vaginas with hardly any personality, motivation or purpose other than having sex with the brothers. Then they blame the 'fangirls' for not liking them. One of the few females that was introduced and nearly universally loved was Charlie, and EP Bob Singer thinks it's because 'she's a lesbian and so she won't have sex with the boys', but the reality is that she was a lesbian so the writers were forced to give her an actual personality other than 'sex toy'.

Besides, there have been plenty of female characters that were introduced that the fans loved (or at least didn't hate), and each and every one of them have been fridged.

*disclaimer: I do know that there are a few (loud) fans out there who do hate any female character because she might get in the way of the epic man-love, or whatever, but they don't represent fandom as a whole, and people should be willing to admit the writers' failure to create and sustain compelling female characters is a large part of why fans don't like many of the women.

I agree with this about the writing decisions re; Lisa, but I really disagree with the notion that all the female character were just introduced as love interests or walking vaginas? The narrative is never particularly kind to women, but I think to say they don't have personalities is kind of a disservice and a pretty skewed way of looking at it.

For one, very few side characters in SPN get that much depth at all, mainly because they don't last very long (Gabriel was only in 4 episodes, for example), but it's only the female characters that people get hyper-critical of, and blame their lack of depth on the fact that they're female. As far as I'm concerned, plenty of the female characters have been compelling and had potential to be incredibly interesting before being killed off.

Also, people always say the female characters are just there for the boys to have sex with, yet the only recurring female characters that Sam and Dean have slept with are Anna, Lisa, and Ruby. Two of them had their own personalities, storylines, and agendas (and Lisa used to and had loads of potential before S6) so I really don't know where people get that from.

I was gonna write more but then I got bored. Basically all I'm saying is that, yeah SPN has some major problems with sexism, but the fandom's just as culpable. I do think the show's overall worse for pandering to the incredibly sexist fandom, but... it was the fandom had massive, largely unjustified hate campaigns in the first place.

Edited 2012-10-02 01:57 (UTC)

Completely agree with this post.

Ruby was SUPER interesting. She was sassy and spunky, and you couldn't really tell whether she was good or not until the end. She definitely had her own agenda, and that made her a pretty fascinating character.

I also liked Anna a lot, and she definitely had her own motivations. I was sad that she didn't stick around for very long 'cause she had to go dark side. :/

While not "love interests" per se, Jo, Ellen, Bela, and Meg are all interesting female characters. Or were except for Meg. I'm a bit bitter that they killed off Jo because I felt she had a lot of potential, and it would've been cool to see her teaming up with the Winchesters every now and then for a hunt.

Spoiler: She shows up in Season 7 as a ghost and it's pretty obvious Dean cared about her.

Oh, cool. I'm still on season 6. Can't wait for that cameo. :D

Your comment was very well reasoned and I agree with it full on. I think Anna, Meg, Ruby, Missouri Mosely, Sheriff Jody Mills, Pamela, Ellen and Jo (to name a few) were all much more than walking vaginas. Not only did Jo have her own motivations, but her backstory (and some of Ellen's) is expanded on quite a bit in companion material. I really liked several of the female characters. And while I can say that many of them died too soon, that's true for most characters regardless of gender.

Ah, but the interesting ones were not sex objects, is the point. Jo started off pretty weird, when they couldn't seem to decide how old she was and yet were also setting her up as "Dean Love Object": once they stopped doing that, she got much more interesting. A lot of the "one off" female characters, especially in the first two seasons, are great, because again the writers seem to be writing an interesting character rather than a "sexy woman" character. It when they spend the time brainstorming a longterm female love interest that they seem to tick all the poochie boxes, because they stop seeing her as a character.

+1

very well said.

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