[ SECRET POST #2104 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2104 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 129 secrets from Secret Submission Post #301.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat x 3 (NS to begin with)], [ 1 - unreadable ], [ 1 - secret posted as text ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[intrigueing]

I completely understand people's desire to ship slash/femslash between two friends and not ship het between two equally-close friends because of the whole issue with scarcity and assumptions. You know how you get sick of it when every single time a man and a woman become close, something ~romantic~ has to occur and it just so happens that that they're always attracted to each other? And you go "why can't they be platonic for once?"

It's sort of the flip for slash: it gets disappointing when every single time a man and a man or a woman and a woman become close, nothing romantic ever occurs and it just so happens that they're always not attracted to each other, and you go "why can't they be gay for once?"

But that's only a rationale for criticizing the lack of gayness in media/fandom in general. Not in a specific ship. It gets really fucking annoying when people who ship a specific ship go "how can you not ship this? They're so obviously in love! Look how much they care about each other, why on earth wouldn't you want the pairing?" as though not shipping two specific characters romantically is a insult to the quality or worth or importance of those two characters' relationship, and that is just. not. true. Romance is not "better" than friendship, and not wanting two characters to be a couple does not mean you think their friendship isn't "good" enough or something. Argh.

[(Anonymous)]

Hey there, Anon from above. Agreement on all fronts of your post, the last paragraph in particular. It's like a relationship, for whatever a person wants to call or consider themselves, isn't valid unless it's deemed romantic? Though what sucks at times is when the friendship between two characters isn't taken all that seriously either, the whole, "They're not that close. The character is only doing it for this reason."

Which I say, bullshit.

[intrigueing]

Oh man, yeah, that bugs me too. And also, when two people have a very new friendship or have just barely met, and one of them shows the other one kindness and does something nice for them. And then the shippers say they were nice because they were attracted to or fell in loooooove with the other person at first sight. Because apparently being a decent human being or liking someone isn't a good enough reason.

*cough* points to icon *cough*

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT yes exactly. Sometimes I think that some fans forget how much they love close friends or siblings IRL. It might be possible that they don't love any friends, but more likely that they just blank it out when they watch their favourite shows. It's also cultural, British and European men are much more huggy and touchy with each other than American men or men from Australia and New Zealand say (I've lived in some of those places, mostly Australia and Britain, but enough time in the others to have an opinion...) but they can be homophobic, it's very much just a friendship thing. In a lot of Western Europe and parts of Britain both men and women greet each other with kisses and I've talked to Australians and New Zealanders who when they first came to Britain kept thinking people were in love with them!

I don't mind people shipping these characters, but to believe it's actually there in canon when it simply isn't, can be very undermining of the actual canon relationship.

[fenm]

Romance is not "better" than friendship

Agreed. On the flip side, you get people who'll argue that making a couple romantic/sexual will "ruin" or degrade" the friendship. This is especially troubling when the friends/potential couple are same-sex--the idea that a same sex pairing is "degrading" is... problematic.

[intrigueing]

Yeah, both ways are so infuriating. I get not wanting a certain specific same-sex friendship to become romantic, but people go "why do you have to make every friendship gaaaaaayyy????" Well, for one, we wouldn't make so many platonic friendships gay so often if we got more quantity and variety and normalcy in canon gay relationships, and for another, people do it to het couples who aren't romantically involved in canon all the time too.

Not to mention people think that if you make a friendship into a same-sex relationship, it makes those characters ALL GAYNESS ALL THE TIME AND NOTHING ELSE, which is a view that sure isn't helped any by the fact that most canon gay relationships are all about how this couple is gay and not straight (the and not straight part of way the relationships are contextualized is actually the most frustrating part) and isn't it interesting that they're gay and by the way these characters are gay and everything that happens to them has something to do with the fact that they're gay and the main point of their character is being gay and their entire character revolves around their relationship to the character they're gay with.

Slash fanfic is honest to god my foremost go-to source for romance that just so happens to be same-sex and doesn't revolve around sending the message "these characters are gay and not straight!"

[stainless]

On the flip side, you get people who'll argue that making a couple romantic/sexual will "ruin" or degrade" the friendship. This is especially troubling when the friends/potential couple are same-sex--the idea that a same sex pairing is "degrading" is... problematic.

This, totally. But as soon as you say it, you're accused of NOT UNDERSTANDING FRIENDSHIP and GETTING YOUR ICKY ICKY SEX AND LUST ALL OVER EVERYTHING, YOU IMPURE THING. Drives me nuts. If someone wants friendship to "become a thing" -- write it. Find friends who write it. It may or may not take off, but it just might. Then everyone could be happy, and people wouldn't be insinuating that gayness is somehow less beautiful than ~*~***~*perfect friendship~*~***~**~*~*~

....Yeah, I might have some feelings about this.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm the anon who made the point above about friendship, and I don't think that you can't have a relationship that isn't also a good friendship. I was talking about canon. The fans can ship what they like and write what they like. I just feel it undermines the friendship in canon when fans insist that every hug or touch means they must be shagging.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm totally with you on this one. I'm in gaming fandom, which is full of dudebros. Some of the characters have even been stated as gay in one game series, but they're still like, "THEY'RE NOT GAAAAAAAAAY. STOP READING GAYNESS INTO THIS!!!!"