fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2105 ]

[ SECRET POST #2105 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2105 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 107 secrets from Secret Submission Post #301.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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So the main character for one of my stories is driving me insane and I kind of wanted to vent. Maybe some other people have stories to share so I won't feel so alone in my frustration, haha.

Anyway, so Alex (my MC) has been hiding a lot of plot-important stuff from me. Someone's stalking him and he refused to show me a postcard his stalker sent - the same postcard that freaked him out so much that he resorted back to self harm, which is another plot-important thing - and because of that, he stalled my story for weeks. :S
And the self harm would have made great angst to write about, if his boyfriend hadn't JUST had a talk with him along the lines of 'man I know you have issues but you can always come to me, we can try to work through it together' and I was just OMG ALEX MAN UP but that's mostly me wanting to get my story done :P

Another of my characters, Zack, refused to tell me what was going on between him and Flyzik. Luckily Flyzik can't keep a secret and told me.

And lastly, for my NaNoWriMo my MC wouldn't tell me his name. I had to threaten him to call him something ridiculous like Sparkly McGaypants to have him confess his name was Logan Callahan.

So, any other stories of characters being infuriating and refusing to cooperate? Please tell me I'm not alone XD

I'm kind of confused. How can a character you create hide things from you or refuse to show you things? And how can a character not tell you his name? I get if you have trouble coming up with a name or figuring out a name for your character, but the way you're phrasing this is like you think these are real people talking to you, which confuses me.

Do you read many author interviews? A lot of writers talk like this. Some people use it as a way to get around blocks, or flesh things out so they seem more real to the audience. It's just another way of saying "I don't know what this character's name is or what his purpose is in the story, but I'm hoping this will become known to me as I continue to write."

I've read author interviews but they've never been to the extreme of the OP. I've seen people talk about characters giving them trouble and not being able to get a feel for characters, but never about how they are hiding things from them and the kind of stuff OP is saying. Just struck me as very odd.

Well...tbph I agree with you but I've also heard pro authors talk like that. I just kind of take it as their way of saying "this is giving me trouble" like you said.

As a writer, I agree. I'm not saying it's not a valid writing process, but OP's tone is weirding me out a little. I often feel like my characters have a sort of life of their own, but the thing is, they don't interact with /me/. I'm one of those fly on the wall types, paying attention to what they do and say. The idea of them somehow being aware of /my/ existence is super freaky.

Do you read many author interviews? A lot of writers talk like this.

Yeah, bad writers.

Maybe. I haven't read all of their books. But they write stuff and make money off it and get famous enough to give interviews, so.

Still doesn't make it a good thing, and it really isn't conducive to the writing process.

I have never read an interview where a well-regarded literary writer said anything like that. Writers like Stephenie Meyer? Sure. And yeah, she's successful, but she's not a superb writer by any means.

And maybe you've read more interviews and quotes than I have but "the story/characters are living things/treat them as if they're real/think of them as my children" seems to come up a lot, and like I said I haven't read all of their stories so I can't judge if they're good or not. But I read it as OP venting about their mental block and maybe being a little over-dramatic. It's not really hurting anyone even if their writing is bad so I don't see how it can be a good thing or a bad thing?

And hey, maybe they want to be a writer like Smeyer. Some people are in it for the fame and money rather than sharing stories.

... I think their characters are talking to them. Which I guess can happen to some people.

Huh. That seems very strange to me. I've seen authors talk about their characters causing trouble, but never in the sense that they are real people like OP was talking. Just struck me as odd.

Because not all authors craft, create, or otherwise 'control' their characters. Some feel they simply have to tell a character's story because they're the only ones with access to it, by virtue of knowing the character in their own minds.

Sometimes when a writer is trying to flesh out details about a character's personality or backstory, they will have the sense that there is a specific right answer to a particular question about that character, even if the author hasn't figured out what that answer is yet. Finding that answer feels less like "making it up" and more like "discovering it." I've had that experience, with characters supplying personal details about their history and preferences that I didn't know were true until I wrote them. Sometimes I've tried to name a character, and the impression I had of that character in my head "rejected" a bunch of names until I hit upon the "right" one. It didn't feel like, "Yes, this is the name I like best for this character, I think I'll use that." It felt like, "Aha, that's your name, isn't it?"

What you said sounds logical and normal. What OP said does not. They're similar concepts it's just that OP seems to have taken it a bit too far.

wait, are you having a schizophrenic episode or writing a story?

wait, are you a douche or just someone who doesn't understand creative processes different from yours?

NAYRT

Writers who act like their characters are separate entities are morons. I'm pretty sure I've said this on another thread here before.

As the writer, you have complete control over your characters. They are tools to use in your story. If you start acting like they have "minds of their own," then you obviously don't have a very good grounding in reality.

Sure, everyone has different creative processes, but there's a difference between trying something different and being completely delusional.

NAYRT (cont)

Also! When you are writing a story, you are making conscious choices about what your character says and does in order to develop them and create a natural sequence of events (read: plot). If you have no idea what the fuck you're doing with your characters because you're under the erroneous notion that your characters can "hide" things from you, then your story is probably going to end up being pretty shitty. Just sayin'.

One could just as easily argue that authors who don't develop their characters with full and complex personalities, goals, and desires such that their actions and responses flow organically from their established personalities will end up with "pretty shitty" stories. When an author decides that he can make his character do whatever he wants to serve his plot, regardless of the personality of the character in question, it comes across as forced to the reader and makes the character seem flat or nonsensical.

If a writer has a firm sense of a character's personality in their mind and feels they cannot "force" the character to do something that would go against that personality, it's not ~delusional~ for the writer to say that the character won't cooperate. Similarly, trying to stick on details that don't mesh with the established characterization won't work, even if the writer doesn't consciously realize why those details don't mesh. If a writer conceptualizes that impression as the character "refusing" what the writer does, how does that hurt the story?

Or do you just like shitting on any creative process that's different than yours, or that you perceive as "quirky"?

When an author decides that he can make his character do whatever he wants to serve his plot, regardless of the personality of the character in question, it comes across as forced to the reader and makes the character seem flat or nonsensical.

Um, I never said a writer should do this. Obviously, a character should follow a natural progression just like a plot should. When a writer endows a character with certain characteristics, the character needs to act in a believable way according to these parameters.

However, things become problematic when an author starts treating a character as a separate entity with their own thoughts, opinions, etc. Yes, a writer should not write a character doing something against their personality. But a character doesn't refuse to do anything. Instead, a writer realizes that a character's actions may not be appropriate in a scene because those actions do not compute with established parameters.

A writer needs to realize that they are the sole person in charge of the story. Characters aren't real. Yes, they should seem real to the reader, but the writer should view them as devices. Thinking of them as "real people" takes away from critical thinking. If a writer's justification for not writing a character a certain way is "he refused" instead of "his actions go against his personality," then they are distancing themselves from critical analysis. In short, it's lazy.

You say it's merely conceptualization. I, on the other hand, think this attitude impedes writers. I have yet to see a good writer who hold such views. I think one problem many writers who utilize this "conceptualization" run into is that they separate themselves from their writing. They stop looking at it with a critical eye because their characters are "running the show."

Frankly, I don't consider this creative process "quirky." I consider it asinine. I'm against it because I have seen so many poor writers employ it time and time again. I have no problem with people having different creative processes than me, but it's difficult to turn a blind eye when there are some that are clearly ineffective.

You're right.

Re: Ranting about your main characters

(Anonymous) - 2012-10-08 16:59 (UTC) - Expand

Hate it when characters do that. :/

My main in one story I'm attempting to write is working on technically the opposite side of his best friend/teammate for the first time ever since they've met, and has talked himself so much into being unbiased about him (due to really wanting him on his side) that he's become biased against him. And won't tell him about what's going on. He'll find out in the worst way.

But his teammate? I have no idea whether he's already figured it all out and is covering, or is going to feel horribly betrayed when the reveal comes. He will not say. It's ticking me off.

I guess this little act is a fancy way of saying you have writer's block? Like others have said it makes you sound like you think you're part of a multiple system or something.

If your character gets a letter you should already know what's on it because whatever it is will serve the plot. I hope you're not just stumbling around with story refusing to get back tot hat plot point because you didn't plan ahead.

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