[ SECRET POST #2131 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2131 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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04.
[Red Dwarf X]


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05. http://i.imgur.com/yB8cp.png
[linked for illustrated Snape/Harry porn]


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]












17. [SPOILERS for Detective Conan/Case Closed]



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18. [SPOILERS for Miller's Crossing]



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19. [SPOILERS for Journey into Mystery]



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20. [SPOILERS for Sanctuary]



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21. [SPOILERS for Journey into Mystery/Thor]



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22. [SPOILERS for DCnU Suicide Squad]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]














23. [WARNING for rape]



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24. [WARNING for suicide]



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Notes:

To the anon that wanted warnings on .gif secrets: I'm not sure how I could effectively implement that. For triggery or spoilery secrets, one could just not read the text, but for .gifs by the time you get to the warning, it's already moving in your field of vision. If you have a suggestion as to how it could be done without just linking the secret (it's not breaking any rules or containing porn or gore, so that wouldn't be fair), let me know. Putting it in the notes for now.

16 is a .gif, by the way.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #304.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I think I might be a little odd regarding things like this, because I love it when characters' personalities are reversed. I love it when villains are written as fantastically good people and heroes are written as sociopathic assholes. I suppose I just like imagining what would happen if everything got switched.

[(Anonymous)]

A legit role-reversal type fic can definitely be interesting. Well, if done well that is.

[iggy]

...But then they're not even close to the same characters? Like when you're writing characters OOC to the level that they're literally the opposite of who they are, and the only similarity is name and appearance, why not just write original fic?

[(Anonymous)]

Well, I have read one fic where the whole prompt was that Steve was secretly evil the whole time, and it was really good- and really creepy, and it seemed IC for that variation of Steve... But the point was that it was an Evil!Steve AU, and his actions would be OOC for the main canon, so I can see why people might like OOC (but logical) versions of characters.

But, when it turns into someone ignoring canon characterization in a non-AU, I have to ask that same question.

[iggy]

See but that's what I don't get. "IC for that version of Steve?" Like the fanfic version? But again, then basically if you take a character from a canon and change him that much, you're essentially writing an original character, even if his characterization is consistent within that writer's universe.

I don't see how that's logical to be honest. I'm not really ever a fan of character flanderization or "Ron-the-death-eater." Making Steve secretly evil is very much the latter. It goes against the core of who he is. Imo.

[(Anonymous)]

Well, the scary part was, he didn't really change that much - outwordly. Everything still played out the same, it was his inner motivations that changed, I think this is a YMMV thing, but I thought it was fascinating, and it reminded me of how glad I am that Steve was one of the "good" guys, because if he was a bad guy... O_O

[insanenoodlyguy]

There was that one universe...

I don't remember what issues but it was Exiles.

An Iron man dead with a serrated shield buried in his chest... otherwise familiar looking except for the swastika.

So... there's good odds of at least two Evil Steve's out there, if you count cancer-verse.

[iggy]

Well we are talking MCU but...

Comic books like to do weird AU stuff like this for shock value and have done so for a long time. :\ Marvel Zombies exists. Also communist Superman.

[insanenoodlyguy]

I don't count Zombie Colonel America because that was an infection. He was not a bad person before that point.

And Communist Superman was awesome.

[(Anonymous)]

http://archiveofourown.org/works/541006

The fic ayrt was talking about, I think. It's chilling because it makes sense for movieverse steve. The actions are the same, the internal though process is what sets this steve apart.

It's good.

[intrigueing]

I liked it because of the way it was framed, tbh -- it wasn't bashing or criticizing or flanderizing or villainizing at all, because the only similarity that character really had with canon Steve was the way the other characters viewed him. It was showing the reader that the other characters treated evil!Steve just like they would treat him if he really was the good guy he is in canon, because that's how he acted, and he was so good at it they had no idea. Which is what made the ending of that fic such a gut-punch.

So that makes the fic basically a commentary on Steve's character -- pointing out how lucky the Avengers are that Steve really genuinely is a good person, because the immense power of a squeaky-clean good reputation and the love and respect and trust that brings you, in the hands of a complete monster? Utterly terrifying.

[intrigueing]

Nonono, I'm pretty sure I know what fic the anon is talking about. It's this one: (http://archiveofourown.org/works/541006), and it's amazing and so so so creepy precisely because it's so utterly wrong and the author knows it's wrong (actually, judging from the rest of her fics, Steve's probably her favorite character).


It's basically an AU "what if Steve was actually evil?" And then, having him do all the same things he did in the movies, except he was secretly a complete psychopath pretending to be good, so his motives were completely different. It was "IC" superficially, because evil!fic!Steve was faking being good really well and basically acting exactly like how canon!Steve acts naturally. The fic version of Steve, however, was acting in-character for completely different reasons. And that's really fascinating for the same reason that any AU is fascinating -- you get to interpret the onscreen canon events in a completely different light from what you know is true, which is something that visual mediums are a goldmine for because you can only trust your eyes. Interpreting Captain America and The Avengers under the assumption "what if Steve's secretly evil?" is cool because you know Steve's not supposed to be evil and it's completely contrary to what the character is supposed to be like. If it was "what if Loki was even eviler?", that would be boring, but a super-good-guy being evil? Fascinating.

Of course, a lot of the time dark!character fics are badly-written and come off as either lazy or bashing, but if you do it right and frame the story right, they can be really fascinating and the contrast can actually be a really complimentary tribute to the character.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Doens't fly though. Just looking at the movies, we've seen how Steve acts when he's alone. Makes the story too inconsistent for me.

[intrigueing]

Well...yes? Exactly? That's the precise reason I can let myself like it. It obviously has to be a complete AU, definitely not "hahaha maybe your fave character is actually teh ebil! You have no proof he's not!" -- that couldn't work for Steve, because we see into his head too much for that in the films (plus, there's the whole serum thing...unless the serum was being sneaky and not showing his evilness in any way as obvious as a deformed red-skull face).

However, no one else knows. From all the other characters' POV, he's a perfectly nice guy, so it's a "if a tree falls in the forest and no one's around" deal from an in-universe perspective, but not an out-of-universe perspective.

[tyger66]

Woah! do you have a link to that evil Steve fic? Because I LOVE secretly-evil-hero AU's.

MASSIVE FACEPALM

[tyger66]

Just realized it was linked twice already.

Re: MASSIVE FACEPALM

[(Anonymous)]

XD

tbh I'm willing to paste it again

just for you ;)

Re: MASSIVE FACEPALM

[tyger66]

awww, thanks. I felt like such an idiot as soon as I posted my comment and saw the ones directly above me.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's possible to explore the same character in this way. Every villain has redeeming qualities, and every hero has personality flaws. If you can tap into those qualities and flaws respectively when imagining a reversal, then it can still be the same characters -- they've just developed in a different direction.

[iggy]

I'm not saying that a character can never be taken in a somewhat different direction in a fanfic, but there are limits, I feel. If you turn someone like say, Steve Rogers, into a serial killer (just an example), you have in my opinion gone past that because you have literally written the opposite of who he is. It's just no longer that character, in any sense of the word really.

I feel silly saying this, but it actually really tends to be upset me personally. I know YKINMK, but the first time I came across a fic that turned my favorite character in my current largest fandom pure 'evil,' it literally made me nauseous. I felt goofy over it happening, but... it did.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it would be very, very interesting to see a fic in which MCU Steve slowly changed from who he currently is into a serial killer. I like when things get turned on their head, especially when it's in a discomfiting way.

But...I'm sorry that that sort of thing upsets you so much. I don't get upset by the same thing, per se, but I've gotten very upset myself by certain portrayals of characters I've liked, so I can understand.

"Handlebars" fanvid ahoy!

[intrigueing]

I usually only like dark!characters as AUs, but there are certain fictional characters it works for, done in a specific way. For example, derailing characters into shallow jerks who fail to act to the standard you expect them to? Those are infuriating because they're so insulting and pointless and missing the point. To be good, the story has to be aware of what the character is really like, and the author has to admire and like the character and know why s/he's so good and so well-liked, and consciously defy or twist or destroy that, in a believable way.

Like, Luke Skywalker works, because there was that moment when he was right on the edge of going to the dark side, so it's not a huge stretch to wonder "what if he did? What if he didn't cut off Vader's hand, what if he didn't realize what was happening to him, what if, what if, what if"

Or there are certain characters for whom the idea of going Knight Templar or going insane from their experiences/situation or being sucked into their worst impulses and weaknesses is just so captivating an idea: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly-Vhw1fevM

Re: "Handlebars" fanvid ahoy!

[tenlittlebullets]

IDK, I think the really genius thing about "Handlebars" is that it's not AU or even a darker take on canon, it just crystallized what everybody already knew about Ten. Mind you, if you want to argue that the entirety of New Who is an elaborate setup for Russell T Davies' dark!Doctor AU, you probably have a point, in which case "Handlebars" just anticipated the big reveal in Waters of Mars. XD

DA

[(Anonymous)]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do it because it's an interesting way to explore the other characters in the story, or to explore some aspect of the canon's world, which makes it very much not original fiction. Shifting the role of one character isn't really any different than, say, shifting the time period the story takes place in, or shifting the genre, which are also perfectly valid forms of AU.

Not everyone's cup of tea, obviously, but that's why most people make a note of the AU in their header.

[dazzledfirestar]

I think there's a big difference between playing the role reversal what if and legitimately thinking that's how the character is/should be.