Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2012-11-15 05:19 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2012-11-15 05:19 pm
[ SECRET POST #2144 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2144 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 023 secrets from Secret Submission Post #306.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
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(Anonymous) 2012-11-16 05:41 am (UTC)(link)When people mistake Sherlock and John for a couple it's either played for laughs, used to reflect that insecurity that John has about his sexuality that you mentioned (which plays into the whole idea that being mistaken for gay = bad), or some combination of both. The same people don't have to keep accusing them of it or bringing it up for it to be queerbaiting. The fact that it comes up in every single episode constitutes queerbaiting. Also, the fact that they appear to have no intention of exploring John's sexuality or any of those insecurities related to how it is perceived by other people beyond poking fun at the fact that so many people assume he's gay, and that makes him flustered. "Constantly gets mistaken for and denies that he is gay" really shouldn't be a character trait that they feel like sticking in every episode when it has absolutely no pertinence to the plot. They're basically just using it as ship fodder and to add to the John-is-so-put-upon schtick (which isn't a bad schtick, but he spends the majority of his time with Sherlock; there is more than enough there to make him seem put upon without having to go the everyone-thinks-they're-a-couple route).
The fact that the show contains queerbaiting doesn't mean that the ship is bad or awful or that people shouldn't ship it. I'm all for people shipping it if they want to. I have a slash couple in another series that I ship where the writers like to use them to queerbait. I will always love them as a couple, but that doesn't mean that I have to just accept or like all the no homo crap that the writers write with them and toss my way. The fact is that a lot of shows pull that kind of crap, and it gets really, really old. You can write two male characters in a relationship where they're extremely close and show that closeness without going for the gay jokes or using the fact that people ship them together to boost your ratings. And the constantly being mistaken for a gay couple thing is generally not a show of acceptance or open-mindedness. Not when it's happening to two guys who've not been presented as queer in canon, and when every time it gets brought up, it's either followed by a giggle, a denial, or some sort of negative reaction by at least one of the characters in question.
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MOTHERFUCKING THIS.
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(Anonymous) 2012-11-16 06:12 am (UTC)(link)I find it endlessly frustrating when writers tease this stuff and play things up to get people's hopes up, because there's almost never any pay off. Whereas when they're teasing a straight couple, at least they have more than a snowball's chance in hell of actually happening. And I can ship non-canon couples with the best of them, but having it constantly brought up with absolutely no intention of taking things beyond the references to people thinking they're gay together is annoying. Especially given the lack of queer representation in T.V. shows, books, movies, and other entertainment media. And even then, when you look at what we do have, there's not a lot of good queer representation among that. Better than what we had even 5 years ago, but still in need of some serious work. Unless you're going to follow through, just keep writing your stories. I guarantee that shippers will find enough context within to ship to their heart's content without you having to mention that people think they're a gay couple periodically. They don't really require the reminder.
Lol, sorry for the ranting. I just have a constant, low-level simmering annoyance at this type of thing, and apparently it's chosen today to boil over.
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Plus, there's often another straight couple as major/main characters on the show. How many mainstream shows that tease a gay couple have another gay couple as major/main characters somewhere?
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(Anonymous) 2012-11-16 06:36 am (UTC)(link)no subject
And, yeah, a few all-gay shows have done it. But your average--or even above average--mainstream show intended for a large audience tends not to do it.
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(Anonymous) 2012-11-16 06:30 am (UTC)(link)My ship fuel is character chemistry. It doesn't matter if the chemistry leads to a canon romantic couple or not, I just want to see the characters bonding and having moments together. When that couple is definitely not going to be canon, it's still nice to be able to suspend disbelief.
No homo queer baiting is the ultimate buzzkill. It's a spring loaded clown popping up at the end of a nice bonding scene to tell you that your interpretation is LOL so not ever possible! It means the writers have considered it, and laughed the idea off. It gets in the way of the suspension of disbelief.
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(Anonymous) 2012-11-16 06:43 am (UTC)(link)That's a really good analogy for it. And I agree that character chemistry is great ship fuel, and in a lot of cases the only real fuel needed. There are tons of non-canon pairings out there that people ship on chemistry and interaction alone, with no need for bringing in the no homo crap, so unless writers are going to follow through and at least do more than make it clear that they know people ship it, why even bother bringing it up? One of my favorite pairings is one that the writers like to do this with, and like you said, it's a total buzzkill. It doesn't kill the pairing for me, but it has definitely ruined some scenes that are otherwise good right up until they set foot onto the no homo path.
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that insecurity that John has about his sexuality that you mentioned (which plays into the whole idea that being mistaken for gay = bad)
This is John's problem, yes. But why confuse it with something the underlying text is trying to say? It's not as if anyone else share his opinion.
The same people don't have to keep accusing them
There have been no "accusations". Some people have made assumptions in good faith, and simply thought they were a couple. No dramatics involved.
"Constantly gets mistaken for and denies that he is gay" really shouldn't be a character trait that they feel like sticking in every episode when it has absolutely no pertinence to the plot.
Why not? It reminds the audience of the impression they give to new people they meet, and reinforces the idea that yes, this is not a weird assumption to make, considering how it seems from the outside. It also tells the audience what their relationship does look like from the outside, and may make them wonder if there could actually develop into something.
I also think you're exaggerating this "constantly". It isn't actually that big a part of the show.
there is more than enough there to make him seem put upon without having to go the everyone-thinks-they're-a-couple route
Sure, and they use those other things a lot more, if you recall. There are a lot more scenes about how Sherlock's weird behaviour makes him a horrible flatmate than to what people think of their relationship, for example.
Which, by the way, seem to be strangers who don't know them. Their friends and close acquaintances don't joke, accuse, or even assume anything in that vein, and even Mrs. Hudson never mentions it after that first time.
Oh, I'm not denying that queerbaiting exists. Supernatural, for example, is brimming with it, especially this season. But I don't think having strangers react to what they perceive as a romantic relationship is in itself queerbaiting. Not when they do it in a way that essentially normalises queer relationships. The fact that even Sherlock himself treated it as a legitimate possibility in the beginning is a clear indication, IMO.
There's also the fact that the writers and producers have no need for queerbaiting of any kind, as the show is completely unaffected by ratings or fan reactions. I don't actually think the writers, especially Moffat, really care about anything but telling the story they want to tell. But that's speculation, of course.