fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2161 ]

[ SECRET POST #2161 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2161 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 098 secrets from Secret Submission Post #309.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
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It's necessary if you have to eat if you happen to be an omnivore (which human beings are and I have never been convinced otherwise)

Also, I take the animistic approach to the world and I think everything has a soul to some extent, so eating plants isn't really any more humane than eating animals to me

so eating plants isn't really any more humane than eating animals to me

brb lol'ing forever

not ayrt

Me too. I just include all living things I eat into my thanks before I eat, and hope that they're in a better place.

What of those plants that eat animals like small rats and the like? Is that like...double jeopardy on the humane part?

I want to know too :O

Quick! Someone eat a Venus Fly-trap - for science!

I've never heard of a plant that eats rodents. What plant is this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2124440/The-Mousetrap-Flesh-eating-plant-grows-5-metres-high-dines-rodents.html

That is so cool! Thank you!

you're welcome

nature's pretty spiffy eh?

so eating plants isn't really any more humane than eating animals to me

The point, I think you are missing it

Plants do not have nervous systems. They do not feel pain.

Also, humans are not OBLIGATE omnivores. That's just bad science. Did we evolve as omnivores? Yes. Are we required to maintain an omnivorous diet in order to survive, when we have access to all our knowledge about nutrition, farming and transportation bringing us a wide variety of foods, and dietary supplements? That's a resounding NO. Plenty of vegetarians and vegans exist who are healthy and don't drop dead from lack of meat/animal products.

Vegetarianism is class warfare and implicit encouragement of genocide by starvation. Same with organic food. As a personal choice its mostly harmless but when advocating on a large scale it's downright evil. Long run whether or not we require animal protein it is the more humane choice.

This is a really ironic comment actually. In the long run, adapting a vegetarian diet actually helps feed *more* people because food loses a lot of its energy content as it moves through the food chain. It takes way more corn to produce meat for one meal, than it would take to just eat corn for that meal.

In the short run, if meat is the only option available and is necessary for a person to maintain a healthy diet, then yes, obviously, the person should eat the meat. I'm not advocating that anyone should starve. Frankly I think your reaction is fairly extreme and I'm guessing you've run into some pretty extreme vegetarian/vegan types and are projecting that onto me.

Well said!

And, it takes less effort, energy, better for the soil/environment (in some places) to grow vegetarian fare than to raise livestock. Cattle, for example, are way harsh on the environment they're in, especially in the numbers we tend to have them in NA. And then we generally feed them corn and other crappy chemical filled shit so it's not even that healthy to eat their meat when we butcher them.

It isn't possible to grow vegetables in some parts of the world. Will we force people living in deserts and permaforst to import vegetarian food? Farming isn't always the better option either; systematic destruction of forests and grasslands and soil erosion are some major concerns for farms.

It's not black and white.

Agreed!

My best friend is severely iron deficient from a vegen diet. She's couldn't afford iron suppliments or vitamins for many years because they're very expensive and out of her budget. She's also deficient in several other meat-related vitamins but the iron deficiency is the worst one.

I know one person's experience is not a reflection of the whole, but, in my humble opinion, until the day we can manufacture all our essential nutrients in such a state that they are readily absorbed by our bodies and without costing an arm and a leg to buy, we're better off being omnivores.

Your friend should probably eat meat, then. We aren't in a position right now to provide completely for everyone's nutritional needs outside of meat.

But the statement "we're better off being omnivores" implies that everyone should be an omnivore. I disagree; plenty of people have diets without meat and are perfectly healthy.

Are we required to maintain an omnivorous diet in order to survive, when we have access to all our knowledge about nutrition, farming and transportation bringing us a wide variety of foods, and dietary supplements? That's a resounding NO. Plenty of vegetarians and vegans exist who are healthy and don't drop dead from lack of meat/animal products.

This statement of yours implied we should all be vegetarians and vegans because we don't need meat products to survive, which I objected to. Also, there are many parts of the world where people historically live or lived on pure carnivorous diets because farming and plantlife isn't possible. The arctic is an example. If anything, I'd say it's vegetables that are not an essential part of our diet.

"Until the day we can manufacture all our essential nutrients in such a state that they are readily absorbed by our bodies and without costing an arm and a leg to buy, we're better off being omnivores than pure vegetarians." Does this make it clearer what I meant? Meat products with the right nutrients are easier to absorb than supplements and pills. Education and knowledge are moot point unless the right foods are available. If you can afford being a healthy vegetarian, all the power to you. Don't judge the rest of us who can't afford to live up to your vegetarian ideals.

This statement of yours implied we should all be vegetarians and vegans because we don't need meat products to survive, which I objected to.

Your stance seemed at first to imply that we all needed to eat meat, which is what I was objecting to. You're still kind of implying that when you say "we're better off being omnivores". And I wasn't judging anyone. And I wasn't judging anyone - I'm not sure where that came across. I'm just discussing the science behind all this.

Being vegan means you really have to keep track of what you eat and the different vitamins and whatnots you intake, be it from food or supplements. Being vegan can be totally healthy if you know what you're doing. It sounds like your friend didn't.

I agree that it can be very expensive to be a healthy vegan, if you don't own a farm or a way to grow a lot of the food yourself. But the problem is that a lot of vegan, vegetarian, and organic food costs so much because so few people buy it and so few people make it, because it costs so much to produce. It's like solar panels. The more demand the cheaper things get, so it's kind of unhelpful to say 'I'll just be omnivore until things get cheaper' because they never will if nobody ever eats vegan or vegetarian fare.

Excuses me, my friend knows exactly what she's doing. She lives in a neighborhood with a population of South Asians and South East Asians large enough to support a wide variety of imported "ethnic" vegetables and fruits in their local supermarkets. In fact, most vegetables and fruits are the cheapest in her part of the city. It's not her fault that in spite of all that, she still needs supplements and foods she can't afford.

And how is food production in any way, shape or form comparable to the production of solar panels? One, solar panels never spoil. Solar panels can be mass produced in factories without being magically destroyed a week or two later from rotting. Two, better technology and more efficient solar panels are the driving force behind the price drop. Increased demand does make it cheaper, but not by much in comparison to the technological advances.

Another thing - organic food costs more partly because chemical fertilizers are more efficient, partly because certain bacteria are not a concern when using chemical fertilizers. I buy local whenever I can to support our farms but I don't buy organic because it is not better than the non-organic foods.

And, I eat meat because it is easier to get iron from meat than vegetables or pills. It's better for my body, not because it's cheaper than the "alternatives."

Wow. Wow. I should not reply on such topics when I'm on cold meds. There were a lot of half formed not really explained as I thought I was explaining thoughts in my reply up there. I'm just going to bow out here and go lie down on the couch.

Re: The J-Word (A Thread That Shall Explode in Wank, Just Watch)

(Anonymous) - 2012-12-03 18:46 (UTC) - Expand

Organic food takes up too much farmland to produce. There isn't enough farmland on earth to feed everyone right now. A significant portion of people switching to organic will make it cheaper, yes, but it will kill people and widen the disparity in access to healthy and unhealthy foods for poor people.

humans are actually more closely related to frugivores than anything

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