[ SECRET POST #2177 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2177 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 058 secrets from Secret Submission Post #311.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[agnes_bean]

I think it's unreasonable to dislike someone for dislike a character. What IS reasonable is to dislike someone for what their dislike of that character reveals about them. But I still wouldn't put it as "I don't like them because they don't like A."

As an obvious example, if someone saying they hate female character A because she's a [insert slew of misogynistic insults here] then yes, you should probably back away slowly. But it's not because they hate A, it's because they're a misogynist.

Of course, I also think there's a whole slew of reasonable reasons to dislike (not necessarily hate, but certainly dislike) even seemingly likeable or noble characters that go beyond "they remind me of my ex." People have preferences in fiction that honestly don't necessarily reflect RL values (I say, as someone who tends to like morally grey or black characters way more than the standard good guys, especially the lawful good ones). I would try not to read too much into people's preferences.

[(Anonymous)]

I mostly agree with this, but there seems to be a line that no one clarifies. You say that if a person dislikes a female character and declares it with misogynistic insults, that's not okay, which makes sense.

But if a person dislikes a good-guy character because good guys bore you, his goodness is annoying, his lawfulness is annoying, lawful good personalities rub you the wrong way, you don't root for him because you can't relate to him, you think morally grey or black characters are cooler or more interesting or more complex because of their moral greyness...well, how is that so much different from someone who dislikes a female character because women bore you, her femaleness is annoying, women characters rub you the wrong way, you can't root for her because you don't relate to her, you think male characters are cooler or more interesting or more complex because of their maleness?

I mean, that's a "preference" too, but it's not one people deem is acceptable, even if it's only in fiction and the person is perfectly fine with non-fictional real life women, because sexist logic like that is not something that gets a "to each their own" or "live and let live" reaction. It's gonna get a "well, then, you're a moronic jackass" reaction, and with good cause. So what's so much different about disliking a person who dislikes fictional good guys or guys that follow the law, even though they're fine with lawful good guys IRL?

And that's not a rhetorical question, btw. I totally believe that there is a difference, but I don't know what that difference is. It seems like it's because there's some undefined line between the two examples that no one has ever delineated and illustrated.

[femme_androgyne]

There aren't long-standing social mores and institutions oppressing people just for being "good".

[femme_androgyne]

I realize this is a simplistic answer, but for me, personally, it's the most important thing. Any time a set of opinions or beliefs plays into oppressive cultural narratives, I, personally, will hold it to a stricter standard of scrutiny than I will if it doesn't do so. That's also why "I'm sick of blonde characters" wouldn't bother me, but "I'm sick of black characters" would.

[diet_poison]

"I'm sick of blond characters" would strike me personally as rather shallow :P

[agnes_bean]

Hmmm. Trying to figure out a way to articulate this that makes sense.

I think, at least for me, it's because I don't actually think maleness and femaleness are actually things the way that "good" and "morally grey" are. If you can't relate to ANY female characters? Of ANY sort? I don't care what you say about how you relate to women in the real world, you clearly see a distinction between men and women that I fundamentally don't believe in, and that makes me uncomfortable.

Which, I will note, I actually do think is different than "I don't like/relate to this PARTICULAR female character because the way the narrative portrays/explores/etc. her femininity/place in the world due to her gender/etc. doesn't interest me."

[femme_androgyne]

This is a really good point. I know that I'm frequently more interested in male characters than female characters, especially in classic lit, for example, but that's because they get to DO things. Things that are more interesting to me (and not passing judgement on people who disagree or anything) than be chased by suitors, sit at home moping and/or providing support via promises to wait for his return/tokens of love, have babies. There are also some character archetypes that are overwhelmingly male/female, and I have to admit, some of the (almost) Always Male ones are favourites of mine, but if someone just hates every woman they come across in fiction regardless of how she behaves or who she is? That doesn't bode well for their actual attitude about real women.