[ SECRET POST #2181 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2181 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 100 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 2 - too big ], [ 1 2 (again) - repeat ], [ 4 - trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[awkward_as_heck]

I know it is a pretty silly thing to get bent out of shape over but it just stuck in my mind especially the as the scene was supposed to be the crowning moment for the new Doctor. I did pick up on inconsistencies when it came to RTD episodes but it was on the second time round, the first time I got so swept up in the spectacle that the niggles didn't bother me. I guess its that it seemed like such an obvious mistake at a very important point in the first episode of the new era that I just happened to catch the first time round that bothered me.

For me I tend to think that for all his faults　RTD at least managed a pretty coherent story arc which for the most part had moments of both subtle quietness and epic bombast that fitted with the stories being told without always beating you over the head with its message or deeper themes, sure they are a lot of 'hang on a minute' moments when you look back on them but they seem minor in the grand scheme of things.

Moffat on the other hand seems intent on throwing a lot of cool ideas at you without really caring if they make sense and expects you to accept them, the 'hang on a minute' moments seem so obvious that you are surprised that Moffat didn't think of it which makes it harder for me to brush the minor niggles aside. That and he doesn't seem to do subtle very well he always has to draw your eye to everything and tell you how to feel about something. It gets very grating.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Ah, I guess I see what you're getting at. Difference in perspective, I guess? Because for me it seemed pretty obvious that the Atraxi weren't exactly going to listen to him ask them wtf they were doing in a reasonable manner, so it would have been weird to me if he had done that, and therefore it didn't bother me that he went straight to freaking them out (plus, it was a nice bit of setup for how that method bit him in the ass in The Pandorica Opens).

But IA about Moffat and subtlety. Davies definitely does the small quiet stuff better, even if he occasionally gets irritatingly cloying about it. Well, Moffat did a handful really great small quiet moments in The Eleventh Hour and The Beast Below, but...not really elsewhere. The (occasional) quiet stuff in the rest of his run was mostly written by other writers. It's kind of telling that some of my favorite Moffat-written scenes are deleted scenes, stuff he apparently decided was filler which wasn't important enough to go into the completed episode.

Re: Davies and storytelling. I actually agree with you that Davies did a good job of telling a coherent story arc over his tenure. It's just that I really disliked that story arc, especially the way it ended. And I...gotta kinda question you on the idea that Davies didn't beat us over the head with deeper themes. Really? Tinkerbell!Jesus!Doctor with Martha walking the Earth to tell the world of his coming wasn't "beating us over the head"? I mean, not everything was quite that blatant, but...it got pretty close to that blatant several times.

(I don't say this as a defense of Moffat, btw, just a criticism of Davies. IMO it's tempting so say "I hate Moffat, I wish we had Davies instead" but...I kinda don't like Davies or Moffat. I liked Davies' stuff better simply because Moffat's was even worse, but I sure as fuck wouldn't want him back).

[awkward_as_heck]

I see what you mean. I guess I wished he'd made a token effort at getting the reason out of them before jumping to the 'you sure you want to mess with me' stuff because finding out why they'd skipped straight to the fire and brimstone would probably have been useful. Maybe its another of Moffat's long hanging threads that he'll use to pull the rug out on us in the future but even then it just seems like sloppy writing to me.

I was fine with the story arc until the S4 specials when RTD really went overboard but overall, even with its faults I felt like he managed to tell a complete coherent story. And yeah he did get pretty preachy about themes sometimes, the S3 ending was a particular low point on a lot of things and evolution of the daleks wasn't much better but its been mostly second watch hindsight for me. I think RTD was better at getting me swept up in the grand spectacle whilst Moffat's obession with the minutiae and drawing your attention to it makes everything seem smaller and leaves the flaws easier for me to spot.

(But yeah, I hope there will be a new showrunner once 11 comes to an end. I think if they'd both had a firm exec or a strong second/producer/director willing to argue with them things then some things probably would have worked out better, the emotional end of S4 stuff especially but also River and the Ponds in general, I'm not sure the convoluted plot could be unpicked though.)