fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2182 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2182 ⌋

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I know, "misandry doesn't exist!" blah blah but I was thinking recently, what about men who hate on other men for not being "real men" because they aren't sufficiently masculine enough, or don't otherwise conform to preconceived gender roles, is that misandry? When women do the same thing it's generally considered "internalized misogyny" (though there's a lot of controversy there).

I'm genuinely curious. This is something I see a lot in real life (from male family members especially) and it's always really bothered me.

If they hate on men for femine and not manly enough, isn't that misogyny? (but then, 90% of misandry has its roots in misogyny anyway)

It's not always for being perceived as feminine, but not being "manly" -- like not liking football or being able to use tools or something. It's problematic to think that gender is only perceived in terms of masculine or feminine and there's no inbetween. Androgyny is a thing too

"In between" seems weird to me, since I don't see masculinity and femininity as things that are on polar ends of something. They're just sort of society's ideas of what men and women should be like/do, I think?

but otherwise yeah, ia. And I think the idea that you have to like football or tools to be ~manly is just really silly. I'm def a straight girl and I can't see myself dating a guy who's really into football because it is just boring as fuck to me. And I really, really avoid the dudebro types who fit a lot of "manly" stereotypes.

I wouldn't describe that as "misandry" so much as kind of deeply concerned about ingrained patriarchal gender roles. I think there's a difference between that and misandry as such.

I mean, I'm sure men could be misandrist to the extent that misandry is a thing (which isn't much at all but still). But I don't think it's very common at all. I can't really think of any examples.

I think men can be misandrist in the same way that homosexual people can be homophobic, transgender people can be transphobic and female people can be misogynists.

I have encountered all of the above, but I imagine that the vast majority, if not all, prejudices can and do have people who identify as a particular group and yet view that group as inferior.

I'm not saying it's common, but if you're asking is it possible? I say yes.

Misandry, as I understand it, is hating on men solely for being female, like misogyny is hating on women solely for being female. The only things I can think of where men draw the short straw solely for being male - and not for not being male enough - are being forced into physically dangerous jobs (like war, disaster relief, exploration, etc.) and being largely exempt from child/elder/patient care. The "not real men" thing implicitly means "women", hence it's rooted in misogyny. (Yes, I know there's more gender slots than the binary "male" and "female", but this is a binary prejudice we're talking about where you only get two choices, and only one of them acceptable for your perceived physical sex, making it as hard as possible for most people to succeed at it, which is the point.)

I'm assuming in your first sentence you meant "hating men solely for being men."

In today's culture people have equated rape and domestic violence solely with men. To the point that men cannot get help. There are few shelters for men. To the point that men can be accused of rape, the victim can remain anonymous and even if found not guilty that man's life can be ruined. The VAWA laws actually pay prosecutors for guilty rulings for Domestic violence against women. This has led to false allegations, trumped up charges and some less than fair lawyers spending most of their time taking on these cases to get more money. Not all of them of course. Probably not even a large percent, but if it happens at all, it's shit.

Male children of battered women are separated from their mothers because males as low as 13 years old are seen as potential perpetrators instead of victims. Even if they are all victims of abuse. Little boys as young as 6 have been kicked out of school for "sexual harassment." These harassments being things like hugging a teacher or calling a teacher "cute."

Women charged with having sex with their students often get probation or very little jail time. Males are far fewer between but get far more jail time and more publicity.

Men are often denied rights to their children to the point that children awarded to their mothers have been killed by their obviously crazy mothers.

Men get more time in prison for the same crimes. There are Primary Aggressor laws in many states that say if police are called to a scene where there is a fight you always arrest the man because it must have been his fault. This leads to many men refusing to call because they know they will be arrested even if they are covered in their own blood and she's holding a knife.

Now of course I'm sure you're going to say that's because of misogyny! We think women are weak! No. If anything it's both. It can be both. It doesn't have to be one or the other. Current culture protects women and demonizes men. But both men and women do this. It's not just Men v women. Most often in the cases of judges it's male judges ruling lighter for women and women judges giving harsher sentences to women. Both rule more harshly for men.

Men's health issues are not taken as seriously as women's. Just as men men die of prostate cancer than Breast cancer but they get a portion of the funding. Yes it does effect men too but it's almost always portrayed as a female-only.

Homeless single fathers are usually separated from their children. Fathers are separated from their families in shelters if they are still with their wife. I personally only know of one organization that tries to provide shelter for single fathers.

Out of all of the attempts to help women we keep forgetting that males are victims(of violence, of laws, of circumstances) too and unless we help all victims the cycle cannot be broken.

Men can be misandrist, but I would not describe that as misandry.

Hmmm... would I describe a woman who scorned women not fitting precisely into traditional gender roles as misogynist? No, probably not. Sexist. A man with such views could be described as a male chauvinist, but I'm not sure how well that works for a woman.

Okay, upon examining my thought processes, I still conclude that I would not classify that as misandry. "Sexist" might apply, or some variety of "chauvinist". Or just "over-macho asshole".

Well, that's not really hating men, it's hating femininity. I'd call that misogyny rather than misandry... I think the more specific term is "androcentrism" or something like that.

That being said, I would say men can be misandrists in basically the same way women can be misandrists (on an individual level, of course.) I've heard stories of boys who were abused by men or witnessed abuse of girls by men, and as a result they acted cold to other boys. And I've met at least one guy who said he felt more comfortable with women and perceived men as uncivilized, rude, lazy, crude, insensitive... like men in sitcoms, I guess. I'd call that misandry.

I think it's just people being people. You'll have those guys you mentioned. Then you're have effeminate guys that hate men who ARE manly.

Same way with women. Girly girls can hate tomyboys. Tomboys can resent girly girls.

I don't really think either are hatred of men or women or patriarchy or whatever bullshit PC things people say. It's just what we, as people, do. We try to find ways that we are better than each other since we can't just beat each other over the heads with sticks anymore and declare ourselves the leader.

If it's not looks, it's class, who's better at video games, who's better at art, who's got the better car, who's significant other looks better/makes more money, who's got the better pet,who can run faster, and on and on.

Some of those things we call contests. The other we call -isms.

[ SECRET POST #2182 ]

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