fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2187 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2187 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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05. [repeat]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

06. [SPOILERS for Once Upon a Time]

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07. [SPOILERS for amazing spiderman]

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08. [SPOILERS for Nu52 Stormwatch]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

09. [WARNING for rape, sexual assault, gore]

[SCP Foundation wiki]

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10. [WARNING for rape]

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11. [WARNING for abuse]

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12. [WARNING for child sexual abuse]

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13. [WARNING for rape]

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14. [WARNING for violence, RL deaths]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #312.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 (not broken, but being reported as malicious?) - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

This.

I hate when people make the excuse that the rape has to be there because it's "more realistic that way" or he's "subverting tropes." No, he's just adding rape to make the books sensational and as OTT as possible. The rape/murder is there for the same reasons other silly fantasy tropes exist: to entertain, not to make some kind of "statement."

That's one of the things that bugs me about it the most, honestly. Most of the time when someone says that all the mentions of rape bother them or that they're turned off by other elements of the book, people will jump all over them and claim that the only reason they don't like it is because they just don't get it or what GRRM was going for, like the way they view the material is somehow wrong because it's different. And it's really not. I don't want to read about that shit, but I'm not saying that anyone who does read the books and enjoys them is a bad person. You're not wrong for liking it and I'm not wrong for not liking it, so please stop trying to convince me I'm a "wet blanket" for not enjoying something that makes me uncomfortable.

I'm not saying that anyone who does read the books and enjoys them is a bad person.

But a lot of the people with your feelings about the books themselves are saying (or passive-aggressively implying) that. Anyone who talks about not understanding why they're so popular or how anyone could like a story with so much rape is pretty much saying that. There's a lot of it going on in this very thread, in fact. That's my only problem; I couldn't care less if someone likes the books personally or not.

nayrt

And just as often, fans of the books will snark that someone who doesn't like all the rape is too squeamish, a "wet blanket," can't handle "gritty" storylines, etc. They have somehow convinced themselves that GRRM tells it like it really is and people who can't handle his "realism" are wimps.

Yeah, those people are being jerks and obviously can't process the fact that people are just naturally going to like different things, and that someone liking something you don't enjoy or even disapprove of doesn't automatically make them a bad person. Part of it is probably due to the fact that a lot of people in fandom (general fandom), tend to equate their liking a show, character, etc. with part of their identity, so there's the often subconscious assumption that someone not liking that thing that they like is somehow a value judgment on them as a person, rather than just a difference in taste. And because of this, people get defensive and passive aggressive and feel like they have to go to lengths to justify why they're right about liking/not liking something. Which leads to people being kind of crappy to people on the other side of the argument, which sucks.

As someone who is enjoying these books, I don't feel that I am being judged by those who do not like the constant theme of rape in the books. What I don't understand is why is it so hard for those who are liking the books to admit, yeah, there is an atmosphere, a theme, that will be problematic for some readers and leave it at that. Instead we are seeing a lot of judgement against those who "can't handle realizm."

Yeah, the idea that people seem to keep pushing that "Oh, there's not that much rape! People are over-reacting!" bugs me. It may not seem like "a lot of rape" to you, objectively, but different people are going to have different thresholds for what they can and can't handle and different criteria for judging what they consider a lot/not a lot. And even if a lot of the rape isn't on-screen, it still exists in the background. Some people might only be bothered by explicit rape scenes, but some people are going to be bothered by the passing mentions and the idea that it's going on in the background as well. If it doesn't bother you personally, that's fine, but there are people who it is going to bother and there's nothing wrong with that.

Exactly.

Some readers are very aware of atmosphere in books and know the implications, and will react accordingly to their personal make up. And atmosphere and implications are rarely there by coincidence.

TO some people, ONE instance of rape is too much and they shouldn't be judged for it or thought less intelligent for not enjoying it.

I totally agree. I didn't make it that clear in my wording, but that's partially what I meant when I said people have different thresholds for things. It's shitty for people to make judgments on people's character based on that. The people who don't want to read any rape aren't any less intelligent, they just don't enjoy reading about rape.

I completely agree with the point you made here. I think the problem is that a lot of people who don't like the books/show for that reason (which is totally okay, there's nothing wrong with that), are also trying to imply that people who DO like the books/movie are shitty people who are rape fetishists, rape apologists, and complete assholes.

I hate when people make the excuse that the rape has to be there because it's "more realistic that way" or he's "subverting tropes." No, he's just adding rape to make the books sensational and as OTT as possible. The rape/murder is there for the same reasons other silly fantasy tropes exist: to entertain, not to make some kind of "statement."

And you know this...how? You can read his mind?

Because I and many others who have read the books didn't interpret things that way at all. I'm not sure what makes you so sure that you're correct.

Do you honestly think that medieval life was like ASoIaF in terms of constant danger, murder, and rape? Do you really think it's not in the books purely for entertainment and excitement?

... rape and murder aren't "silly fantasy tropes," they're an accurate representation of what many medieval societies were like. Whether you like it or not, it did happen, and it's ridiculous to try to pretend that it didn't.

They're not saying they DIDN'T happen. They're saying they'd rather not read about it.

They're not telling you to not read it. They're saying they'd rather not read about it.

They're not saying GRRM didn't do his reasearch. They're saying saying they'd rather not read about it.

They're not saying GRRM is a perv (well, some people are saying that). They're saying they'd rather not read about it.

then they should just, idk, not read it and stop whining about a book that they would rather not read. if they don't want to read it, then just don't read it.

I didn't mean that rape and murder are silly fantasy tropes, I mean that, in GRRM's books, rape and murder serve the same purpose as silly fantasy tropes do: to entertain. Westeros is not any more "true to medieval life" than Merlin stories are. I don't know why fans of these books can't accept that.

[ SECRET POST #2187 ]

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nayrt

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