[ SECRET POST #2192 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2192 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Tales of the Abyss]


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[Merlin, RPS]


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[Lilo & Stitch]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 032 secrets from Secret Submission Post #313.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[deadtree]

Someone should make a guide for the uninitiated for things like that honestly-- it seems like common knowledge, but clearly there are people out there who don't understand how to properly tag fics, squicks, kinks, and pairings... or even rate things, for that matter :\ A kiss doesn't make it "M", but if there's graphic gore in a "T" rated fic that's even worse. It's not rocket science!

[(Anonymous)]

I mentioned to someone once that their HIV-themed fic probably didn't really need to be rated E, since by all accounts it was tamer than "Philadelphia" which was only PG-13. Her reasoning was that the fandom in question was pretty sensitive, so it was just a "better safe than sorry" approach.

[inkmage]

E? What's "E" for, in that context? The only thing I can come up with is E for Everyone, which doesn't make a lot of sense here....

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure they mean Explicit. That's AO3's highest rating = NC-17.

[inkmage]

Oh, I see. Thanks!

[(Anonymous)]

Sorry, yes, as anon below says - E for Explict/NC17. But the most graphic thing was the character just saying "I had sex with him without a condom."

[inkmage]

That's... do they think nobody under 18 knows what sex is? Or what condoms do? I can understand your reaction.

[velvet_mace]

Those people are annoying. Not only do they blatantly disregard the rating system so as to make it worthless, but they so incredibly patronizing at the same time.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm doing this. I am totally going to make a guide. I will post a link to it here tomorrow. Anything in particular anyone wants?

suggestions

[(Anonymous)]

-nomenclatures and abbreviations: het, slash, femslash, common genres, aus, seme, uke, why sometimes the order in the listed pairings is important

-symbols: slashes, exclamation points

-normal tags and why they are commonly included: fandom, genre, rating, characters, pairing, summary, format (multi-chaptered, drabble, one-shot, two-parter, three-parter, etc.), warnings

-trigger warnings, spoiler warnings and how to handle them

-common courtesies and fandom politics: such as thanks to betas, commenters, etc., not to hold the story hostage for reviews, how not to fall for troll-bait, handling criticism, how not to do author's notes, keeping personal issues personal, etc., not to let your readers do the writing for you, planning your plot as much as you can in advance and try to have a buffer of un-posted chapters, outlines, the benefit of keeping schedules, canon/fact-checking, etc.

-what is beta reading and why it can be helpful

-an overview of different fanfiction posting sites: fanfiction.net, dreamwidth.org, livejournal.com, archiveofourown.org, dedicated fandom archives, adultfanfiction.net, mediaminer.org, etc. (do you want help with this? I can rant at length about the cons and pros of some of these)

Re: suggestions

[velvet_mace]

The "why" you do this is especially important because it seems like most people go wrong when they don't understand the why. For example the chick rating things E seems to be under the impression that that rating purely exist to scare away people who are sensitive and not in fact used primarily for fans searching for porn.

Re: suggestions

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

exactly! I know I learned by blindly copying stuff from other fans, and I'm sure that's how many if not most newbies learn too

I mean, given enough time you sort of figure out the reasons behind all those little things, but so many misunderstandings and embarrassments would be avoided if the reasons were explained alongside the "whats" and "hows"

Re: suggestions

[kaijinscendre]

Okay, I am logged in now. I am 'doing this' anon from above. I have been reading fanfics for about 10 years. Mostly a reader though I have beta'd for friends and I have written like 4 fics (mostly RP background stuff).

I should be able to cover most of these suggestions pretty well. But it will probably take more than one day.

I can cover most of these things and -why- they are done (if there is a concrete answer). I know about most nomenclatures, symbols, normal tags, trigger warnings.

Things I Will Have Trouble With
-"common courtesies and fandom politics" I can discuss these from what I have learned from being immersed in fandom but because I have not written a lot, it will be what I can learn from research

-an overview of different fanfiction posting sites. I know a good bit about FF.net, LJ, and Ao3. I have never really used mediaminer, dreamwidth, or AFF.

Re: suggestions

[velvet_mace]

Can I suggest you put in a part about squicks and kinks -- what they are and how they are not universal, nor things to be shamed.

It seems to me a tremendous amount of newbie wank is generated by fans facing being squicked by something the first time, whether it be a kink or a pairing or a situation, and the usual response to that feeling is that everyone should feel the same way and it shouldn't exist in fandom.

A heads up that, hey, you are going to encounter things in fics that will squick you, this is what it feels like, this is how to react, and, hard as it may be to believe, your squick is someone elses squee.

Re: suggestions

[kaijinscendre]

Oh definitely. That is one of my peeves. I don't like incest fics but if anyone else wants to read them, have fun!

Re: suggestions

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I haven't written a lot either, but boy, have I seen plenty of examples of what to do and what not to do. the polite thing to do varies from fandom to fandom, but certain generalities could be made; would you like my input regarding those?

I haven't used mediaminer and AFF to post, but could comment from the visitor's point of view; I mostly brought it up to make a point comparing kudos, hits, reviews, follows/favs, traffic between them, etc. and to shove in a warning about being cautious with ff.net's scripts

this is probably the type of endeavor that would benefit from feedback from various points of view and different experiences

Re: suggestions

[kaijinscendre]

I can probably get a rough draft written by tomorrow evening and I can post it here. Then anyone who wants to can add/remove/debate about anything. I can make some generalities of most things. But if mediaminer/AFF/etc has any kind of unique processes input would be most appreciated

Re: suggestions

[(Anonymous)]

well, from what I remember, mediaminer has the peculiarity of being mostly aimed at anime and manga, and having a different set of ratings (same deal as ff.net, movies, etc., just different letters, I think), and not having much traffic besides those categories

its main appeal was that it accepted NC-17/explicit stories while ff.net didn't, so some authors posted their smut there

it accepts both fanfiction and fanart, although, even though they turn down things like, say, fanart on lined paper, its quality standards do leave something to be desired

aff.net is for explicit content; I think it only has R and NC-17 categories. I've heard that posting there is a hassle, and the site has struggled financially and mostly lived off of donations and ads to other fandom-ish adult sites; it's also had many issues on the technical side, with formatting sometimes wonking out, stories getting jumbled, various database updates, etc.

for some reason, the site requires the authors to post an actual disclaimer in all their stories (last time I checked, this might have changed)

when one of the child protection act thingies came up years ago, they added a submission form to protect themselves, where the visitor has to claim they are an adult or else they can't enter the site; apparently this wasn't enough for some reason, because some months ago they made the decision to ban/eject registered users that were minors (although why they allowed minors to begin with is something that baffles me but I never could be arsed to investigate for myself)

anyway, I personally wouldn't bother with mediaminer.org, since you can get more traffic on ff.net (and, in certain fandoms, AO3), and better quality all around in other sites

aff.net is worth it if you really want people to read your smut stories, and wouldn't be satisfied with linked to your livejournal/dreamwidth/AO3/etc. account or don't want to open an account there

you might or might not mention that

dreamwidth:

pros: more attentive, friendly and quick to help out staff; the site endeavors to be accessible; bigger maximum word counts for both entries or comments, making it less likely to need to split long chapters or stories; no ads

cons: layout options can be very limited if you don't want to tinker with html/css; does not automatically send copies of any and all comments and replies to your e-mail; does not accept paypal for paid accounts, if that is your only online paying option

livejournal:

pros: many layouts to choose from; bigger communities/userbases; you can choose to receive many notifications to your e-mail; I think paid accounts are also cheaper than in dw

cons: many layouts and styles do not lend themselves well to fanfiction; has had accessibility issues; has been under worrying attacks by various factions (in particular the Russian government), so servers go down from time to time; the people in charge have pretty much sold out and might simply not care about you at all (for more info see: the user/designer igrick, update 88, the whole fiasco with the subject lines, and more subsequent whoopsies I didn't follow because I got tired of it all), even if you are a paid user; spam is more common than in dw

uh, that's all I can think off

I would love to give you feedback when you start posting what you have c:

you are doing a Good Thing

Re: suggestions

[(Anonymous)]

same anon

omg I just realized I didn't even bring up the social side of dw and lj

anyway, you probably should explain about communities, friending, friend-locked entries, promoting your fics and stuff without stepping on toes, cross-posting, avoiding drama, etc.

I think someone here linked to guides on how to use dreamwidth ages and ages ago; anyway, those are useful, because lj is not particularly intuitive for first-timers, and dw is even less so

more suggestions, DA

[(Anonymous)]

Disclaimers: Why people do and do not use them (and maybe a discussion of the legal status of fanworks).

Ratings: You could put in your own guide here - or even copy as many sites' ratings systems/explanations down as you can find, and correlate them - maybe in respect to, say, the American film classification system to give people context.

Links: Maybe some links to/explanations of fandom-related sites, like wikis, or even sites like Fandom Wank for examples of how *not* to be a fan.

[thene]

Ratings systems IRL are hardly better. The King's Speech was rated more restrictively than The Dark Knight, because it used the word 'fuck'.

Personally I think fandom needs to move away from using ratings to simply stating whether something is SFW or not, and if not, why not. That's how the rest of the internet works and it's a much better system than the MPAA have going.

[deadtree]

you know, though, I wouldn't be surprised if The King's Speech actively sought an R rating by intentionally going over the F-word limit, in order to make sure everyone knew it was a Serious Movie about Serious Things and Not For Kids (ie, it was boring and kids would not like it).

Let's be perfectly honest here: when people talk about the E tag on AO3, they're talking about porn. They're either filtering it out because they don't want it, or they're surfing it because they do. So why can't a rating system for fanfic be based on how people actually read, I wonder?

[(Anonymous)]

I think you're correct about The King's Speech, seeing as post-Oscar they released a PG-13 edited version to be more family friendly.

I recall reading an analysis of movie ratings when I was in HS, about how movies will add swearing to get an R rating, for a lot of reasons (IIRC, people see it as an adult movie, and are more likely to pay full price to see it at night, or somesuch). The only reason I recall was that my math teacher at the time, a week later, tried to say the exact opposite, that movies cut the language to get PG13, so that more peeps can see it.

[thene]

It could just be a matter of fishing for the right audience. There was a great hoohah in the UK when The Dark Knight got a 12 sticker rather than the expected 15; it needed that preteen audience, I guess.

[thene]

I doubt that, given that it wasn't casual use - it was an entire scene about learning to say the word without stammering. The MPAA is much more swearing-obsessed than other ratings bodies, and it's not an American movie, so at the point where a scene like that has become part of a script and the only purpose of removing it would be to cater to a foreign ratings board...yeah, not gonna happen.

Mmm - MPAA ratings are to restrict content but fandom ratings are to help us find content. I had a plan a year or so ago to switch my comm over from rating tags to using 'SFW', 'NSFW (explicit)', 'NSFW (gore)', 'NSFW (nude art)', etc. I wrote a whole rant about it at the time.