[ SECRET POST #2204 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2204 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 091 secrets from Secret Submission Post #315.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Hm...I see what you mean, but I think the reason I can't see the big line in the sand is that I can't see why doing a "this is your life, these are your choices", as you say, would somehow be valid to do to old!Kazran but not valid to go back and do to young!Kazran. Young!Kazran is just as much a person as old!Kazran. If episode had instead introduced us to young!Kazran going about in real time and then meeting the Doctor and then was shown that he could become this "hypothetical" (from his perspective) old man who's so awful that he'd let a spaceship full of people die because he couldn't be bothered, I can't see how it would be a violation of "who Kazran is as a person" if young!Kazran went "hell no I don't want to become him!"

And if the Doctor did it to old!Kazran, it's also not THAT different from rewriting even-older!Kazran. Which, again, doesn't exactly fix those grey areas, I just don't think they're all that different from anything involving time travel. Or that bug-thing from Turn Left. Or even not involving time travel at all -- who's to say you're not totally rewriting a hypothetical future version of yourself right at this moment?

It's not identical of course: there's the fact that the Doctor has specific foreknowledge, yeah, which does put a different spin on it, but...I dunno what exactly the alternative was. It's not like he had time to sit around wheedling old!Kazran into being better, or could erase his memories of old!Kazran and fling himself into the past blindly with the expectation that he'd accidentally somehow make Kazran better.

The issue, for me, is that the portrayal of how that kind of thing works, especially with Kazran remembering both sets of memories, kind of randomly breaks a bunch of pre-established rules and norms about how time travel works in the Whoniverse. But that's Moffat for you. *bangs head against wall repeated re: Angels Take Manhattan*

[tenlittlebullets]

Except "nebulous future!Kazran" and "future!Kazran whom the Doctor has already met" are different, because the show goes to great pains to establish that foreknowledge of events, or going through events in your own timestream, makes them real in a way that glimpses of possible futures aren't. Meeting young!Kazran and asking him to look at his life, look at his choices, via some magic device that shows you possible futures but doesn't fix any of them in reality, would be way different from meeting older!Kazran and then going back in time just to manipulate younger!Kazran into choosing a future whereby that guy will never have existed.

It's like... it's like "The Girl Who Waited," which is already dark as all hell because it takes that scenario seriously instead of trying to pass it off as heartwarming. The only reason it's not even darker is because older!Amy agrees to give her younger self a shot at a better life than she had, and when it becomes clear that the two Amys can't coexist, she ultimately tries to comfort Rory and the Doctor by agreeing to sacrifice herself so they're not straight-up murdering her. If it hadn't been voluntary, it would've strayed into "way too fucked-up to be on Doctor Who" territory. A Christmas Carol gives me the raging heebie-jeebies because it's basically TGWW with older!Amy kicking and screaming the whole time, and it's trying to pretend it isn't.