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fandomsecrets2007-08-28 03:23 pm
shahni.livejournal.com) wrote in fandomsecrets2007-08-28 03:23 pm
[ SECRET POST #235 ]
⌈ Secret Post #235 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
- Sorry for the late, fell asleep on the train :D;
Secrets Left to Post: 08 pages, 110 secrets from Secret Submission Post #034.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [1] too big, [1] repeat.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Wednesday, August 28th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
tl;dr
14: I'm getting REALLY tired of how everyone who is interested in Japan or Japanese culture is thrown in the weeaboo pile.
Here's my short list, IMO, of what does and doesn't make a weeaboo/wapanese:
Someone is NOT a weeaboo/wapanese if:
Someone learned of Japanese culture through a questionable source (e.g. anime, manga) but then did research, learned from more reliable sources, and still likes Japan or the Japanese people.
Someone likes and collects anime and/or manga, games, figurines, music, ANYTHING. Fandom and collecting makes an otaku, at worst, not a weeaboo.
Someone's appearance isn't "right."
Someone wants to travel to Japan.
Someone wants to or is learning Japanese.
Someone is knowledgeable about Japanese culture and history. (This is actually a huge marker of someone NOT being a weeaboo.)
Someone is attracted to Northeast Asian-appearing people sexually.
Someone makes the decision, fully knowing of the benefits and drawbacks, to live in Japan.
All of the above apply.
Notice something? None of these things necessarily involve mindless fetishization in the absence of what I will mention below. Also, if you changed any other country for Japan (say, the UK or US) none of those would necessarily seem evil or objectifying, even in combination.
Now, someone IS a weeaboo/wapanese if:
Their ONLY understanding of Japan is what they read in manga or watch in anime or hear from friends.
They are entirely ignorant of major parts of Japanese history and culture. Not just "you don't know how to bow properly" or "you can't translate the Kojiki, backwards, bitch!" but things like not knowing why people bow in the first place, not knowing the Kojiki exists, not getting the concept of the vertical society, not knowing the difference between tatemai and honne, not getting that Japan was run by a fascist Nazilike government in World War II and committed major atrocities against innocent people, THAT sort of thing.
They don't make a serious attempt at learning Japanese or limit their interaction to speakers of their native language or use the services of a translator (things respectful people would do in any country), and do use horribly mangled loanwords borrowed from anime and manga in conversation with both Japanese AND American people.
They are sexually attracted to ONLY Japanese people and that as objects or trophies, not as real people like themselves.
They think Japan is absolutely perfect, rather than a society with costs and benefits like any other.
Most would not seriously consider living in Japan after realizing it's not the happy wonderland they want.
Point being? The above is where objectification comes in and where, yes, someone is being creepy and needs. . . what? Abuse? Othering? No. They need education and knowledge, so they can make an informed decision as to whether they really love the Japanese culture and people or if they are really only seeing it as something it isn't.
I'm quite annoyed with the idea that somehow, the cure to objectification seems to be MORE objectification. We've created this construct of the "weeaboo" and thrown everyone from our future Asia-Pacific scholars and Japanese teachers to yes, idiotic trend-followers and objectifiers under it.
People have at points seriously suggested psychiatric treatment for people they consider to not identify with their birth nation and identify with another nation far too much for their "normal" tastes, and that's something else that disturbs me, since if even something as intrinsic as gender isn't necessarily fixed according to birth, who's to say national identity is, especially since, unlike gender, national identity is completely environmental and cultural.
Re: >>
To the original comment...thank you! There is a huge difference between a "weaboo" and those who have a serious interest in the culture. A lot of weaboos wouldn't last a day in a decent Japanese language class.
Re: >>
The girl in your icon. Is she who I think she is? I think I love you.
*is <lj user=modernquill>, rly*
I adore her. I haven't played the game but I adore her.
Re: tl;dr
Re: tl;dr
STFU.
answer if you're actually interested in what I have to say:
No. People are objectifying (in a dehumanizing way) otaku and non-otaku persons interested in Japanese culture by lumping all of us in with the worst of weeaboo. Though I don't see any point in arguing this with you since you're only going to mock me for it anyway.
Re: tl;dr
Ah okay, I understand what you mean now. I would have mocked you for just saying "STFU" and leaving it at that. Also for the record, I read your whole post, I am not the type that thinks "tl;dr" unless it's literally several pages worth of writing at a teeny tiny point size that make my eyes bleed.
And I'm quite aware that not all people who like anime or manga or Japanesey/Asian things are crazy, smelly otaku (I mean, I like anime, manga and asian things and I don't even come close to matching the otaku profile). But just because I know this, isn't going to change the fact that there are people out there that ARE crazy, smelly otaku furthering the stereotype for the rest of us.
Re: tl;dr
Agreed. However, I see the problem not as that some people further the stereotype, but that in our attempts to make sure that we aren't seen as furthering the stereotype, we make it much harder from people to go to the stereotype to not (e.g. "why bother if they're going to hate me for who I used to be anyway?") AND we make it a lot easier for all of us to be hated, especially if we're trying to keep up appearances for people who are convinced that even trying not to be a weeaboo makes us a weeaboo.
Re: tl;dr
"why bother if they're going to hate me for who I used to be anyway?" Well who knows if that is what some people are thinking, but they are better off not having friends who think changing oneself for the better is a bad thing. I mean, sure it might be a topic that will get them made fun of for quite some time, but it's something done in jest that could more often than not simply be stopped if the person in question tells their friends how much it upsets them. But then communicating is something us humans pretty much suck at.