[ SECRET POST #2222 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2222 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Adenauer and DeGaulle]


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













16. [SPOILERS for Celeste & Jesse Forever]



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17. [SPOILERS for Superior Spider-Man, Scarlet Spider]



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18. [SPOILERS for DMC: Devil May Cry]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]














19. [WARNING for incest]

[A Tale of Two Sisters]


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20. [WARNING for suicide]



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21. [WARNING for eating disorders]



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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #317.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 1 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[truxillogical]

That's probably my least favorite change I've seen. Sheesh, it's supposed to be a wacky, fun site filled with nerds.

[(Anonymous)]

But the issue is poor names really, really, really encourage misuse. Sometimes to more than half of the actual content where it's referenced. What's the point of the trope then?

I agree that TVTropes is not really a respectable tool of reference, but even in this very thread are people bitching that fans misuse and stretch tropes out. A huge part of this is unclear trope titles.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, but the cool names made it fun and grew its popularity to start with. The offbeat, goofy, and Asian names were part of the charm. Worrying about misuse is just taking it too seriously, and giving it more weight than its worth.

[(Anonymous)]

But so many people are complaining that the tropes are a clusterfuck of misuse. I mean...it seems like a rock and a hard place: I don't like this site because the administration is too strict vs I don't like this site because the administration is too lenient. Both seem to complain just as hard.

I also disagree the appeal of the site is in quirky or whacky names. It's maybe a small part, but I think most people are really intrigued reading about themes and ideas that have been present just under the surface for their entire lives being labelled and categorized and provided examples for.

But everyone is there for something different.

[intrigueing]

No. Only ridiculous people who take TVTropes way too seriously would be "intrigued reading about themes and ideas that have been present just under the surface for their entire lives being labelled and categorized and provided examples for". That is NOT what tvtropes is. Fiction does NOT work that way, with its elements all categorized and labelled into neat little boxes. It does not work that way, it will never work that way, and it never should work that way. It is NOT a writing resource. It is NOT serious, legitimate, credible, or meaningful.

The appeal of tvtropes is that it's fun, that you can read entertaining or interesting examples of fictional characters doing certain things that appeal to you: Crowning Moments of Awesome. Woobies. Genius Ditzes. The Wesley. Heroic Sacrifices. Xanatos Speed Chess. Bat Deductions. Rages Against the Heavens. Wangst. Dork Ages. It's pleasurable to read examples of ideas you like or are amused by.

It's also fun in that it's nerdy and self-referential and in-joke-riddled as hell and created by nerds, for nerds (in fact, it started as a Buffy-only forum thread created for Buffy fans' own amusement.) It. Is. Pure. Fan. Indulgence.

And fan indulgence includes that amazing, warm, fuzzy little thrill you get when you see a trope title that is a clever, somewhat obscure reference to a fictional work used as a noun or a verb, as if it's straight out of frickin' Shakespeare, putting Wesley Crusher from Star Trek TNG on the same referential level as the pound of flesh from Merchant of Venice. THAT is what is appealing about tvtropes.

[(Anonymous)]

+1

[(Anonymous)]

And I think only people who get REALLY REALLY offended that the idea you can categorize things would think otherwise.

I did not say the fiction fits oh-so-neatly into boxes. I said that it was interesting to see themes given names and shapes, themes you see your entire life. I can see you're the type of person that gets offended when their favorite character gets small little biographies. "Oh my god, they are NOT that simple, they are NOT that easily understood, you have to write essays and essays just to understand their deep and meaningful characterization!" and the funny thing is, you could be right, but the fact you're taking such offense to someone innocently making such summaries is laughable.

THAT is what is appealing about tvtropes.

No, your highness, this is what YOU find appealing. This is what YOU like. You are not the undisputed god king of the internet and what people enjoy. I'd ask you to hold your arrogance at the door, but I think anyone who has such a long-winded and ridiculous overreaction to the things I said are clearly the people "taking themselves too seriously".

[intrigueing]

I'm...not really "taking offense"? I don't know where I said I was offended, or that you should write essays and essays or whatever. I never implied anything of the sort.

It's just that it's silly to think tvtropes has any credibility as a serious writing resource, because it literally has zero notability. It's not something serious, and it's silly for higher-ups to try to pretend it is something serious by getting their panties in a knot about how "oh god no, someone might not immediately recognize the reference in that trope title, and that will bring us shame because we r srs writing resource, yo!" Because...it really, really isn't. And that's perfectly okay.

And I apologize, I meant what is commonly appealing about tvtropes to most people. I should have phrased that better to not sound like I was dealing in absolutes.

[truxillogical]

Anon is starting to sound like the people who fly into a rage at Gail Simone every time she explains that she loves the concept of fanfiction (even though she can't read it) and thinks it's wonderful that fans have developed an interactive storytelling experience as an integral part of fandom, but that it's not actually anything like writing professional at all.

"What do you mean that thing we do for fun isn't SRS BZNS! If it's not, then WE'VE WASTED OUR TIME!"

Or something along those lines.

[(Anonymous)]

because it literally has zero notability.

I never said it was a serious writing resource, and the 'zero notability' policy means anyone is free to add any work. Wikipedia doesn't let you add yourself to it, for instance, because you are most likely not notable. So long as it is a published work, it's acceptable to add.

It doesn't mean 'literally everything you can think of applies to anything you can write down'. New tropes are shot off the web all the time.

And on the one hand, you're saying they take themselves too seriously...and on the other, you're saying that having a no notability policy shows how non-serious they are.

As I said, the trope titles get changed because people misuse the shit out of them. Someone was saying up above Five Man Band is stretched all to pieces to fit everything, and this is something a lot of the tropers are aware of and try to fix. "No notability" doesn't mean 'you're free to put whatever you think might work into this'.

So you're complaining that they don't take themselves seriously enough, so they can't be a good resource, and you're also complaining they take themselves too seriously, and since they're not a good writing resource they should stop.

And from everything I've heard and seen about other people mentioning TVTropes, that is not what the majority find fun about it. Take that XKCD article for comic--people link that thing all the time when trying to explain what they like about it.

[intrigueing]

Um, I dunno if you're replying to just me, but I never suggested any of the things you're arguing against.

And on the one hand, you're saying they take themselves too seriously...and on the other, you're saying that having a no notability policy shows how non-serious they are.

Um, yes? Exactly? If they truly want to be serious, they should be serious across the board, instead of sending mixed messages by showing non-serious-ness in one area but then getting freaked out about seriousness in another, because then they just look stupid.

And...really not sure how my description is incompatible with that XKCD comic (you're talking about this one, right?: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tab_explosion.png)

[(Anonymous)]

That's what you find appealing about the site, everyone who visits it is going to have a different experience.
The site's gone downhill a lot since I started visiting it years ago, and if I first discovered it in its current state I might have had a different experience, but when I first stumbled onto it, it actually did help me to start thinking a lot more critically about fiction. It got me to start noticing patterns across fictional works, and noticing them led to thinking about things like why the patterns existed, what they were trying to convey, why they were useful, and why writers continued to use them, and it was really cool to notice two works of fiction use the exact same trope but in completely different ways.
You won't get that from TV Tropes itself (especially not now), but it can still be a springboard for that kind of thinking (particularly if you avoid the toxic waste dump that is the forums and discussion pages), so saying that pure fun indulgence is all it is and can ever be for anyone who isn't taking it way too seriously is really oversimplifying things. My experience with the site may not be as common as yours, but it isn't any less legitimate.
And if I'm taking it way too seriously, then so be it.

[(Anonymous)]

That's everything that used to be appealing about TV Tropes. It isn't any of that and hasn't been for a while.

Funny story. Quoth Janitor on FastEddie's Tropers page:

"Can't you see that people are having a great time with the examples? That they are suiting stuff to the things that they are familiar with, making it theirs?"

Every single act FastEddie makes now makes it perfectly clear that he now considers it his.

[(Anonymous)]

Since Gus passed away there has been effectively zero check on Eddie exercising his own opinions on how the site should be run and appointing yes men as senior mods to back him up.

[(Anonymous)]

This. Forever this!

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

A lot of the Asian names had to go because the site was getting a horrible reputation (warranted or not) for being Weeaboo Central, with every special case of a trope's particular application in anime getting its own page (go see Kimodameshi for an example of this in action).

[(Anonymous)]

Only in the professional full-time "we hate anime" crowd. Which is generally a hotbed of anti-Asian racism anyway. Basically a lot of noisy racists kicked up a fuss. Like if the KKK objected to having African-Americans in page images and Eddie removed the images. It was the srz bznz fans that got upset that tehs interweebz were taking them serious enough because they talked about Japanese Cartoons. It made them feel bad about using a trope name in a junior high essay.

Basically that.

[(Anonymous)]

This. I hated when they changed Nakama, and I only started poking around TVTropes this time last year. I can never remember what Nakama is now because it doesn't stand out in my mind anymore.

[truxillogical]

Nakama is the one that gets me too. It stuck out so much that it's still how I think of Flash's Rogues. I mean, I get it, it's a random Japanese word that no one who doesn't speak Japanese or peruse TV Tropes is familiar with, but it's an accurate word, dangit.

[(Anonymous)]

It's "True Companions", whatever the fuck that means. It's just as oblique as Nakama, but with Nakama, even if you don't know Japanese, once you click on the link and read the page (simple as that!) and go "oh, so *that's* what it means" you'll never forget what it means again. "True Companions" is dull and forgettable as hell, and doesn't really mean anything.

[truxillogical]

I want to be perverse and try to get it changed to that Kiwi/Maori word that means "extended family that you choose."

Only I have no idea how to spell it. Fa-nah?

[(Anonymous)]

That would be "whānau"

Tethercat Principle

[(Anonymous)]

The greatest tragedy of that site was when "Tethercat Principle" was renamed "Offscreen Inertia." And no, I'm not being sarcastic. That was actually disappointing to me.