[ SECRET POST #2236 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2236 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Inda series]


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02.
[Les Miserables and Discworld]

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03.
[Three Kingdoms 2010, Legend of Chu and Han]


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04.



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05.
[DBSK]


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06.
[The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (Shivering Isles)]


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07.


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08.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]













09. [SPOILERS for ]

[Umineko no Naku Koro Ni]


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10. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]














11. [WARNING for rape]



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12. [possible warning for sexual assault (as I'm sure the thread will contain discussion of it)]



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13. [WARNING for abuse]



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14. [WARNING for rape, abuse, etc]



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15. [WARNING for suicide]



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16. [WARNING for eating disorders]



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17. [WARNING for rape/non-con]

[Homestuck]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #319.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

The barricade definitely, but I think possibly also the Rebellion as well? The events of Night Watch I think more closely resemble the July Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/July_Revolution) of 1830, the 'Three Glorious Days', rather than the 1832 rebellion that Les Miserables deals with. Well, at least politically, what with Winder falling and Snapcase replacing him, with an actual change of power (if not one for the better, but they didn't know that yet). The rebellion in Les Mis would be the equivalent of Reg and the others realising two years later that Snapcase is as nuts, and trying to rise against him as they did against Winder. Which, all things considered, I'm not sure Vimes would have approved of.

Vimes' barricades went up to create islands of calm in a city that had already erupted in an attempt to overthrow a corrupt leader. The Republic of Treacle Mine Road was formed largely in an attempt to keep the peace. The Les Mis barricades, conversely, went up specifically to cause disorder and rebellion to spread, in order to reverse the tentative peace caused by the previous change of power. Possibly justifiably, yes, but I'm wondering if Vimes wouldn't have considered that just a breach of the peace with very little to gain, and a lot of people in the crossfire waiting to get hurt?

[yeahscience]

Which, all things considered, I'm not sure Vimes would have approved of.

Why do you say that? He's certainly never shied away from rebelling against authority when he perceives it to be bad authority. Especially not the Vimes of the later books.

You're right that his primary interest is to keep the peace, but I don't think he'd be comfortable taking a position against the revolutionaries if he thought they were in the right... I think of it more as, like, what would happen if the people he grew up with got fed up with the whole crushing poverty thing, and while I can see him outwardly encouraging peacekeeping and certainly not allowing them to kill anyone, I can also see him politically taking their side.

[(Anonymous)]

... Actually, regarding a second rebellion against Snapcase, you have a point.

Regarding the rebellion in Les Mis against Louis Phillipe, though ... Hmm. Victor Hugo supported it because he had knowledge of later events and the worsening of living conditions for the poor under Louis' reign. Vimes, as a time traveller, might have been on board with that. However, at the time of the actual rebellion, Louis was considered the 'Citizen King', with a reputation for being unpretentious and knowing what it was like to have to work for a living. The rebels were mostly motivated by a desire not to have any king (which Vimes could have gotten behind) or to have a different king (less so), not really because the specific king put in front of them was bad (he hadn't really had the chance to be, yet). Which Vimes might not have seen as a good enough reason to be adding more pain and death to an already disease and poverty striken city. Especially since, as he was from the future, he already knew it was going to be largely useless.

And even if he did decide, based on later knowledge of Louis' reign, to support the rebellion ... I don't think that would be the way he'd have chosen to go about it?

I'm not saying he'd have actively gone against them. I just don't think he'd have approved of them either. Considering that, even with full knowledge of who Winder was, his aim during the Glorious 25th was still almost entirely to keep people safe, rather than make a political statement or act against an unjust ruler. It just all got a little bit bigger than he'd planned.

Vimes' goals are about the little people, not the big systems of government or grand politcal statements. A useless and bloody gesture against a king people didn't even know was bad yet ... might not have sat well with him?

[yeahscience]

A useless and bloody gesture against a king people didn't even know was bad yet ... might not have sat well with him?

True -- that's a fair point. I don't know at all enough about French history to make calls like that, so I was mostly basing my theory off the Louis = Snapcase idea.

That said, while I have issues with Snuff, I do think it demonstrates that Vimes in the post-Night Watch era would be willing to consider the merits of the idea, if not the actual execution of the rebellion itself.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not exactly well versed in French history myself, I'm just basing this on what I can read quickly. And there are some similarities between Louis and Snapcase, in the sense of later realisations of the problems of their rule (not in the homicidal sense, though, even Hugo considered Louis a good man, just a shit king, it was mostly increasing civil unrest and economic problems). The early 19th century was bad for most of Europe, in the aftermath of Napoleon, with a number of disease outbreaks, and in France specifically a series of revolutions on the continued theme of whether or not there should be a king, an emperor, or something else entirely. Which might map onto a pre-Vetinari Ankh Morpork to some degree, but the problems with Patricians don't really match the king-vs-no-king debates of the 18th/19th century, being more straight problems of fit successors rather than attempts to completely redesign the system of government.

Which makes working out what Vimes would think of them ... a little complicated, really.