[ SECRET POST #2245

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2245 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 098 secrets from Secret Submission Post #321.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 - come on, troll with a little more subtlety ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Seriously? Marvel isn't perfect, but their continuity is nowhere as big a clusterfuck as DC's is (with all their Crisises, and now all the stuff with the New 52, etc).

[dethtoll]

You don't actually read DC comics, do you?

---

Edit: I'm sorry. That was douchey of me. But claiming Marvel's continuity isn't as convoluted as DC's is outrageous. It's true that some of their characters have had continuity issues -- I think they actually gave up on Hawkman after 10 years of trying to sort that shit out -- but Identity Crisis and Final Crisis are not continuity reboots and Identity Crisis wasn't even a major event, it was just a lead-up to Infinite Crisis. Crisis on Infinite Earths was the major 1986 reboot, yes, and Zero Hour was a "soft reset" in the early 1990s, but the timeline was mostly left alone for another 15 years until Infinite Crisis. The only thing I'd say is a clusterfuck is New 52 because they didn't throw everything out from the last continuity.

[(Anonymous)]

I actually do read and enjoy DC Comics.

claiming Marvel's continuity isn't as convoluted as DC's is outrageous.

Crisis on Infinite Earths, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, and now there's the stuff with Flashpoint/The New 52. With each of those events characters were getting their origins rewritten.

For only one example, look at Superman. Birthright, which had Superman and Luthor being childhood friends in Smallville, was originally supposed to be a non-canon story, then they decided to make it his new origin , which pretty much retconned Luthor's post-Crisis history (where he was much older than Superman, having grown up with Perry White). Then they gave Superman another new origin in 2009, Superman: Secret Origin, which became invalidated again two years later with the New 52.

And while Final Crisis wasn't a reboot, the whole stuff with Countdown to Final Crisis was a big clusterfuck because the writers there weren't coordinating with Morrison and they ended up contradicting the stuff Morrison was writing.

[dethtoll]

Yeah, and Green Lantern: Emerald Dawn was totally overwritten by Secret Origin. So what?

Personally I don't mind that they reboot and retcon stuff. It doesn't invalidate any of the stuff that came before it, and hell let's be real, CoIE was absolutely necessary to clean up 50 years of goofiness. I think it's fine to make the occasional revision to established canon now and then, provided you do it right. (The Lex Luthor thing was kind of dumb admittedly, but that's why it got booted out after a couple years.) Doing it wrong? One More Day. That arc A) solidified Spiderman as the worst superhero ever, and that includes Six Pack and the rest of Section Eight who were, unlike Spidey, entertaining 2) was a shining example of why I hate Marvel and D) pretty much proved to me that Joe Quesada specifically don't know what the fuck.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, and Green Lantern: Emerald Dawn was totally overwritten by Secret Origin. So what?

So, you were saying "DC does this shit far less often and not half as ridiculously," which is completely untrue. They've been doing it since the 80s, and they haven't stopped.

[dethtoll]

You seem to be arguing as if I said that DC never does this. They do. I'm saying that they don't do it as often as Marvel, and when they DO have a major continuity rewrite, they do it better. (Universe destroying crisis vs. Satan? I'll take the Crisis, it's more interesting.)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm saying that they don't do it as often as Marvel,

Which is what I disagree with. OMD was one story, and it only affected one title. It's not comparable to everything DC has done.

[dethtoll]

40 years of Spiderman continuity right out the window because Spidey is an idiot. It may have only affected one character, but the execution was mindblowingly bad and is emblematic of a lot of what's wrong with Marvel. Marvel may not have ever done a company-wide reboot, but if you ask me that creates its own problems as you suddenly have decades of continuity to wade through. Say what you will about DC's comparatively frequent reboots, I find they're a lot easier to get into, and their reboots tend to be major events rather than, you know, Satan.

[(Anonymous)]

40 years of Spiderman continuity right out the window

99% of his stories are still intact, he was still with Mary Jane, they were just never married. Do you know got their entire relationship history erased in the New 52? Superman and Lois Lane.

All because Barry Allen wanted to bring back his mother, and he damaged the timestream running through it. Seeing all the damage Barry did, I think he was a bigger idiot than Spidey sacrificing his own happiness to save his aunt.

but if you ask me that creates its own problems as you suddenly have decades of continuity to wade through. Say what you will about DC's comparatively frequent reboots, I find they're a lot easier to get into.

It may be good at first, but I think in the long run it just makes things more confusing, with there being multiple versions of different characters and not knowing what still counts and what doesn't.

I think having a rich history of stories and characters helps more than hurts, and I don't think it's that hard to catch up either.

While I was familiar with the DC Universe via the cartoons and movies, and I had read some old DC issues here and there, the first ongoing series I actually collected was the Cassandra Cain Batgirl series. I read about her online and I was interested in her. I picked up a couple of issues from her series, which was around #15 at the time, and I enjoyed them. I read how she was introduced in No Man's Land, so I bought the five trades of the series along with the first two Batgirl trades. I loved NML, and it introduced me to a lot of new characters such as Renee Montoya and the Huntress. It made me want to read more and seek out more stories with the characters.

If the writing is good enough, you can hook the reader in without starting over from scratch.

[(Anonymous)]

DA

Eh, not, OMD and OMIT only retconned the wedding, nothing more.

[psi_yamaneko]

I love DC and Marvel. Both houses. But, let's be real here, both houses also have their share of problems and clunky continuities. Marvel doesn't do reboots, really. They pile lore onto lore until something breaks under the strain then scramble to fix it. DC preemptively breaks the lore then cobbles something together that they hope will be less confusing. Neither method is flawless.

[raspberryrain]

This is an interesting comparison.

[dethtoll]

I guess it boils down to which you think is stupider, and like I said, I'm not impressed by Satanic divorces.

[psi_yamaneko]

Well, yes! Which house you follow is a matter of preference. Nobody liked OMD, though. Not even the people who wrote it (or at least JMS did).