fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2245

[ SECRET POST #2245

⌈ Secret Post #2245 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 098 secrets from Secret Submission Post #321.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 4 - come on, troll with a little more subtlety ].
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This is anathema, but I don't feel like Brave deserved the Oscar.

And. For the one they give to foreign films, there's No from my country. It'd be nice if it won, because of the recognition -our national movie industry certainly needs it- but even though I haven't watched the other nominees, I don't feel like No deserves it. I'm conflicted over that.

I agree. I don't think Brave deserved it at all. I liked elements from the film, but I feel it was almost entirely weaker than basically every other nominee. I had a strong feeling it would win on virtue of being Pixar and having female leads and relationships.

It's just a stand-out bad choice because even if movies like ParaNorman and Wreck-It Ralph didn't do anything very brand new, at least they were better put together and more genuine than Brave. You can really see the seams from where they sewed the two movies together.

Was it because a girl was using a weapon and expressed distain for dresses

Merida had no disdain for dresses. I believe the filmmakers mentioned they wanted to make that clear, that Merida did not dislike dresses or things like that.

Merida was simply a bad person in my opinion. The sheer lack of empathy she expresses might be accurate for a teenager, but teenagers aren't exactly renown for their likability.

So it's because a young person reacted poorly to her her mother constantly correcting her each and every unprincesslike action culminating in her being forced into a political marriage based on the outcome of an athletic contest the contestants of which none were attractive to her. She escapes this fate through a spell backfiring, but the result of this spell is her coming to understand her mother and her mother to understand her. The movie clearly demonstrates that Merida's character arc results in empathy for her mother and overall growth in maturity but this does not matter because she does not act like a lady

Other anon mentioned it too, but I'm not going to look past Merida grilling her mom about whether she's changed her mind when she looks like she's getting suddenly and violently ill. It's just so hugely awful of her. It's not like, say, Ariel where abandoning her sisters is sort of ignored and you're not meant to think about it, it's just right in your face that Merida does not give two shits about whether her mom is dying of food poisoning right in front of her or not.

I don't for a second believe Merida really felt bad or changed her mind about anything because we never see her feel bad or change her mind about anything up until it looks like whoops, her mom is about to be gone forever. The writers simply poorly expressed Merida actually understanding or empathizing with her mother's side. We see a lot of Elinor understanding Merida's, but the writers never gave Merida any reason to feel like her mom had a point or was looking out for her until the very last speech.

The movie clearly demonstrates that Merida's character arc results in empathy for her mother and overall growth in maturity but this does not matter because she does not act like a lady

Yeah, you'll have to try harder to pick a fight. It's very unladylike.

I see everyone picking at that one scene, but no mention of any other scene where she is shown to be a bad person (any more than her mother is)? You say nowhere is it shown that Merida changes her mind until it's all getting serious - but that's kind of the point, isn't it? The two didn't just need some alone time together, they needed to see just how much damage their toxic relationship could do both to themselves and to the kingdom.
And I don't really remember where we're shown that Elinor becomes all empathetic and Merida's still going LALALA BUT NO MARRIAGE? Elinor changes her mind during Merida's speech.

The cake scene I thought was actually quite powerful because it made me so uncomfortable and it was so very clear that it didn't even cross her mind that something could have gone wrong, like she was that desperate for it to have worked. I don't believe for a second that she would have reacted the same had she recognised that she could have very well have poisoned her.

BUT I realise that everyone is hellbent on their interpretation so I'm not going to argue. Just thought I'd share my point of view, because I loved the movie.

Well, alright, since you asked:

Here's a girl that, upon stumbling upon the first known witch in her entire life, immediately thinks that she can be used to "change her destiny" (I'm gonna use the pretty term here, since Pixar just sort of ignored the whole mind rape thing), with no thought to the consequences or danger of her actions. She even gets information that the witch's customers have been unhappy with their, er, orders. Does this pass into Merida's mind that what was done was a bad idea? Nope.

Here's a girl that, when her father is charging through a castle getting ready to kill her mother all Merida can do is say how it isn't her fault, it's all that witch's! (Speaking of which, it also disturbed me the triplets needed to be bribed to rescue their mother's life.)

I might be remembering it incorrectly or something, but I think Merida ever apologizes meaningful or is shown to be sorry for her actions throughout the entire movie, up until her mom has 'died'. For instance, when Merida discovers what happened with Mordu and friends. That would be a good time to realize the gravity of her actions.

The scene with the tapestry and bow is bad on both characters, but at least Elinor is immediately shocked and upset by what she did (which she should be, it was very terribly of her), Merida is the aggressor first. Why does she rip that tapestry? Well, because it will piss off her mom and make her upset. At least Elinor had the excuse of Merida having just used said bow to potentially start a war.

And there's potentially starting a war. Sometimes I snark about it, but at least in most rebellious princess movies, the princess wants to marry for love but has to get married because of 'the law', like in Aladdin. So I'll ignore any other facets because the movie doesn't care for them to exist. Jasmine I can forgive for not wanting to get married because the reasons in her movie are presented as obtuse and dated. The writers in Brave, however, gave a very specific reason: keeping the peace and preventing war. So Merida brazenly defying all of the clans in front of them? Yeah...starting a war here.

And then there's tiny things, like how she complains about everything she doesn't want to do, how she gives the triplets a bunch of sweets because why the hell not, etc.

Are all of these things normal for a teenager? Yes. But as I said, teenagers aren't exactly likable. I don't really like Merida. I wanted to--I went into Brave hoping it would blow me away. But I ended up disliking her so much, partially out of disappointment with what Pixar decided they wanted to do with the movie. Upon rewatches, I didn't really dislike her as much.

Anyway, about Elinor, the whole scene with Merida teaching her to fish was obviously Elinor realizing her daughter really loved being wild and free. She's a bear, she can't exactly speak to the effect. You're just meant to gather it, and it was pretty obvious.

Edited 2013-02-25 22:11 (UTC)

riiiight. yes, that's why people don't like brave, it's because of those damn feminist ideals!

no, it's because it is a shit movie.

Noooo, really seems you just a main male protag to be the winner. Sexist

Not any Anon who has been in this thread thus far but honestly... I hated Merida. Hated her. I hated her personality, and her lack of caring about anyone else. (Especially the scene where her mother eats the cake and looks like she's getting ill and all Merida can think is "ooh, have you changed your mind yet?" NO MERIDA. Your mother is sick, and for all you know, the crazy lady in the forest sold you poison, stop being a douche).

However, in ParaNorman, I honestly felt like all the characters had some trait that made them likable, or at the very least, relatable. Like, Norman's dad isn't ashamed of his son because he's son is ~weird~, he's terrified about what his son faces. Plus, I honestly liked the animation style of ParaNorman better then the animation in Brave, and I feel like it would have been nice for Laika to win.

I though the animation in ParaNorman would bother me, but I got used to it really quickly.

And, yeah, the scene where Norman's mom talks to him about how ins;t afraid of him but, rather, is afraid for him was really nice.

Yeah, it's something unique, but in a good way, and I thought that that was better then Brave's um. Generic-ness? I guess is how I personally saw it? I mean, it was ~CGI~ but I thought besides her hair it was pretty "eh, I've seen this before"...

Yes! Like, weirdly enough, as bad as I felt for Norman, I also felt really bad for his Dad! I mean, it's not like this took place in a world where talking to ghosts was normal, it took place in basically our world, and Norman's dad had no reason to believe his son was telling the truth, and it made sense for him to not believe Norman; I never felt like he disbelieved Norman because he was a horrible person, for example.

Don't care for Stopmotion?

Personally I love the animation style a lot. The time and effort put into each frame is amazing, and it really gives each doll a life of their own.

Don't care for Stopmotion?

No, I LOVE stop motion; I mean the specific design style.

The time and effort put into each frame is amazing

Yeah, it stuns me that they can make feature-length movies with stop motion. The effort and patience involved just amazing.

I liked Brave, but I didn't think it was the best or most innovative animated film of last year. I'm also getting a little bit weary of that Oscar becoming the default, "Let's give something to Pixar this year" prize.

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[ SECRET POST #2245

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