[ SECRET POST #2249 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2249 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Otoyomegatari]


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03.
[Girls und Panzer]


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04.
[My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic]


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05.
[Monster High]


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06.
[My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic]


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07.
[Jackass 3D]


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08.
[Paranatural]


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09.
[Angelina Jolie]


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10.
[Der Ring des Nibelungen]


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11.
[Mary Shelley's Frankenhole]


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12.
[Medium]


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13.
[The Americans]


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14.
[The Mindy Project]


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15.
[5Dolls, T-ARA]


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16.
[A Good Day To Die Hard]


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17.
[Harry Potter]



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18. http://i45.tinypic.com/2v0bjpd.jpg
[linked for porn, Spartacus: Vengeance]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 019 secrets from Secret Submission Post #321.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[(Anonymous)]

The thing is, when you say "misandry," you're comparing that treatment to misogyny. Even if you don't outright say it.

"Misandry," as a word, was created by anti-feminists/misogynists as a direct counter - its intent is to compare the treatment of men to the treatment of women in an attempt to "cancel out" misogyny and act like it doesn't matter because but what about the men.

When you use the word "misandry," you are comparing the treatment of men or a man to misogyny. And you're also being a misogynist and an asshole!

P.S. Misandry DOES NOT EXIST ON ANY LEVEL
not even on the "individual level"!

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[silverau]

I didn't know that about the origin of the word. But it's not really fair to say that anyone who uses the word "misandry" in any context is comparing it to misogyny. Not everyone knows that the word was created as a counter for the word "misogyny" (Heck, when I first learned the word "misandry" I didn't even know the word "misogyny") and there are people who use the word to refer to someone who dislikes men without trying to imply that it's on the same level as misogyny.

And I'm genuinely intrigued as to why you say misandry doesn't even exist on an individual level. Obviously, people who dislike men exist, so...

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[(Anonymous)]

Anon is obviously sexist.

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[(Anonymous)]

I'm just really curious how you managed to learn the word "misandry" before "misogyny".

As in, I really don't know how that would be possible. Is English not your first language or something?

(It isn't mine, either, and I still knew "misogyny" WAY before "misandry". Oh and btw my spell check doesn't recognise "misandry". *hint*)

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[silverau]

Nah, English is my first language. The word "misandry", I learned by randomly browsing Wikipedia when I was like twelve and the word stuck in my mind because I had an OC that hated men. I didn't start hearing the word "misogyny" until like high school when I started learning more about gender issues; before then the only word I knew to describe misogyny was "sexism." /coolstorysis (Huh, my spell check recognizes it.)

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[citrinesunset]

I'm curious, do you have any context or background about the word's origins? Not arguing with you--I'm honestly curious. The only information I can find is that it was first used in 1909. So you may very well be right about its origins, but I can't find any info on that.

The thing is, "misogyny," like a lot of words associated with sociology and psychology, can have multiple meanings. When people talk about misogyny in the context of women's rights and feminism, it's almost always in the context of the larger societal and institutional connotations. Something can be misogynistic without being outwardly "hateful" (that is, someone can perpetuate misogyny and have misogynistic beliefs without realizing it or feeling like they have animosity toward women).

But "misogyny" can also refer to hatred of women in a general sense, or to violent hatred like that displayed by some serial killers. I think you can argue that frequently, this type of misogyny is also influenced by broader, societal misogyny. But from a simple word-usage standpoint, it's possible to say that someone who hates women a personal level is misogynistic without talking about the larger societal implications. That is, someone can be misogynistic both in the sense of buying into societal misogyny and feeling extreme hatred and animosity toward women. The two things are connected but also different.

There are some people who hate men, in general, and feel strong anger or animosity toward them. This isn't really debatable, though it's certainly true that a lot of misogynistic people see hatred of men where it doesn't actually exist ("Feminists all hate men!" for example). But how would we describe a TV show that seems to gleefully depict violence against men (because they are men), or a violent person who specifically targets male victims (because they are men), without describing it as hatred of men? This doesn't mean that the social context isn't very different, or that hatred of men can be directly compared to hatred of women. Though I would argue that hatred of anyone based on gender or gender expression often has roots in misogyny.

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[(Anonymous)]

Re: The word origin, I don't literally know the entire history of the word. But it has risen to prominence, particularly in recent years, because of so-called "men's rights groups," which are disgustingly misogynistic organizations dedicated, generally, to promoting the rights of men to hate and harm women and promoting a victim complex among privileged men that enables them to continue hating and harming women.

The people who hate men are very few, very far between, and generally lack any societal power to actually hurt men beyond hurting their feelings. It isn't an issue. (I have literally in my entire life only met two women who actually hated men. Both of them are victims of rape and horrible abuse and mistreatment from men. I don't see any problem with it. Considering the harm and abuse that men commit to women, it's hard for me to say there's anything wrong at all with a woman hating men - especially when studies are released saying, for instance, that one in twelve men has committed rape, and that 60% admit they would rape if they knew they would get away with it, to say nothing of the general privilege and sexism men exhibit on a daily basis with street harassment, aggressive treatment of women, abuse, rape, and murder. 90% of rape victims are female and virtually 100% of rapists are men. Think about that, would you?)

As for television shows depicting violence against men... excuse me while I kind of lol because I have literally never seen a television show that "targeted male victims" just because they were men. That does not happen. Period.

Look at television shows. Look who the victims are. Look at your crime shows - Law & Order SVU, Criminal Minds. Who are your victims? Who are the corpses on the floor in the beginning of the episode, or the crying victim on the hospital bed? THEY ARE WOMEN. By and large, women are the victims of violence on television shows.

Or does it not count, to you, if they're already victims by the time you see them on your screen? Does the dead body of a woman victimized by a man not "count"?

Violence against women - and depictions of it in television - are RAMPANT. They are everywhere. Look up the trope of the "women stuffed in refrigerator" - using the deaths of women for cheap, emotional drama for male characters is a huge, huge thing. Framing violence against women only as it effects the man/men in their lives is also a great big sexist trope. And let's not forget how many women on television are hit, smacked, are victims of violent crime or even sexual assault just because "they deserve it" - because they did something in the story that hurt a man, or that wasn't considered "feminine." Using rape as a cheap plotline for drama (or as a cheap backstory device) is extremely common as well.

Look at your TV shows. They don't hate men. They don't depict "violence against men." They depict violence against WOMEN.

"Though I would argue that hatred of anyone based on gender or gender expression often has roots in misogyny." Then why the hell are you in here arguing that some supposed "misandry" exists? For fuck's sake.

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[(Anonymous)]

The word "misandry" does exist, though, and people use it when talking about a person hating men. I doubt there's anything we can do to make the word go away now. Whether misandry actually is a thing or not is a different matter.

Re: inb4 "DIE SCUM DIE"

[citrinesunset]

I think word origin is different from people co-opting the word to further their own agenda. The fact that it is often used by MRA types to promote misogynistic ideas is unfortunate, and a good reason to be careful about using the word. But it doesn't mean that the word doesn't exist, or doesn't have a legitimate definition. Misandry exists because it's possible for a person to hate men. I think a better argument is whether it's worth using "misandry" to describe that. Personally, I would hesitate to describe hatred of men as "misandry" simply because it does, to a lot of people, become conflated with larger, societal forms of prejudice like sexism.

I'm not disagreeing with you. Misogyny is a serious, pervasive social problem, and hating men is comparatively much less common. Men don't suffer from misandry like women suffer from misogyny. But that isn't the point. There are times when bringing up hatred of men derails from discussion of what women face, but this whole secret is about how the OP feels about the treatment of men on a particular show. It's not talking about larger trends or problems.

I think hating anyone is a problem. I can sympathize with why some women become wary of or even hate men in general, based on their experiences with them. But it's an uncontrollable reaction, not something to be lauded. And in any case, hatred is hatred whether it's a common or arguably justified form of hatred or not. That's why blanket statements of "misandry doesn't exist" don't sit well with me. I think people understandably want to combat the rampant idea that members of oppressed groups are being "hateful" toward the majority groups just by existing or fighting for their rights. But suggesting it's impossible for someone to hate a majority group is just inaccurate. There will always be that person who really does hate men, or straight people, or white people.

I don't think we really disagree on anything you say, though.