[ SECRET POST #2250 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2250 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.
[Stan Lee]


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02.


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03.
[Pusher II]


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04.
[nigahiga]


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05.


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06.
[code lyoko evolution]


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07.


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08.


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09.


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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]
















10. [SPOILERS for Homestuck]



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11. [SPOILERS for Kuroko no Basket]



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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

















12. [WARNING for rape]



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13. [WARNING for abuse]



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14. [WARNING for rape]

[SNSD/Girls' Generation]


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15. [WARNING for dub-con]



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16. [WARNING for sexual assault]

[One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #321.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Not the OP, but as a commenter I do find it interesting that people react this way to published works that include rape but there's also this Your Kink Is Not My Kink rule when it comes to 'shaming' in fic. Is dubcon and rape okay in fanfic, if it is marked? If people are aware that there is rape in a canon work (thus allowing them to avoid it if that is a triggery subject) and that rape is not meant to be a masturbatory aid for the readers, why is that more suspect? People speculate about GRRM but what he writes is NOT written like a porn scene, even if you might suspect he finds it enjoyable from his description, and I just don't really get why this double-standard exists even within fandomsecrets commenters. It sure seems like the same people that bitch about kinkshaming are the ones who jump on board with this kind of complaint about stuff in books/movies/tv/games.

[(Anonymous)]

The key distinction seems to be: does the work of fiction portray rape as the horrific act it is or as a nonissue that can lead to a loving relationship (without intending to portray Stockholm syndrome)? If it's the latter kind of portrayal and it's done as pure fantasy wish-fulfillment, is it marketed that way? See 50 Shades of Gray and its status as pure fantasy but allegedly people read it as realism.

[(Anonymous)]

*cough* 13-year-old Dany and Drogo, her one true love, the grown ass man and blatant rapist who bought her to be his child bride... Barf. But apparently it's like the most romantic thing ever? Even in the books, GRRM clearly goes that "rape/slavery/chattel => true love" route. The show is even worse.

[(Anonymous)]

Well.

I happen to be a Dany/Drogo shipper in the context of the show. The beginnings of their relationship is incredibly problematic, but I can't help it - I adore them.

HOWEVER, Dany seems to be a young woman at this point - she did NOT strike me as the same age as Sansa. Maybe she was meant to, or originally written to, but she seems far older than 13 in the show. This may have contributed to me liking their relationship a bit more.

[(Anonymous)]

I guess I just don't see that there is a distinct place where the line can be drawn. What some people will react to with, 'obviously he is getting off on this rape scene!', other people will not have that impression at all. In terms of these books, they are written in a very different way than most romance/wankfodder kind of writing out there, fanfic or published. So the idea of GRRM being somehow encouraging rape is ALL based in personal interpretation of the scenes in the books, and is not supported by the canon victims' reactions to the abuses depicted. So you can pick apart the language in the writing of the scene, but you can't actually say that GRRM intended the scenes to be a rape fantasy or wish-fulfillment. And the way people react to the books make it seem like the see it on the same level as things like 50 Shades or Twilight, where the abusive/rape relationship is clearly glorified.

I never got the feeling he was enjoying the early scenes between Drogo and Dany, for example, because Dany was the viewpoint character and it was obvious that she did not enjoy their early sexual interactions. It was also in-canon pointed out that she was extremely young - her own brother (who is totally okay with selling her into sex slaver) is skeptical because of her age... there are no narrative judgments of her later feelings for him; while she believes the feelings are true love or whatever, it isn't really supported and I personally felt like they were a result of something like Stockholm syndrome, and that if he had lived longer she would have grown to hate him.

Maybe I should point out that most of my comment is thinking about this relationship in particular, since it is the only dubious consent that is portrayed explicitly in the novels (as far as I've read - I haven't completed the books yet). I think that most people who discuss rape in the series are primarily referring to Dany and Drogo, since the other times rape is discussed in the text they are much more negatively portrayed and are not actual scenes that the reader goes through. For example you have Cersei and Robert, which is never actually described in the text but is very strongly implied to be an arranged/forced marriage between Cersei and a man she has never loved. But that relationship is also NEVER idealized, he even openly strikes her. As far as Lollys goes, the other characters are disparaging toward her but I never got the impression that GRRM was trying to diminish her experience. Really I felt her situation was horrifically depressing, and the fact that other characters seemed to think she should just get over it really bothered me. But I didn't think GRRM was dismissing her. SO it's obviously one of the YMMV issues, and the way the same groups of people will bitch about this subject from opposite sides is way more problematic to me than the idea that some people out there might be seeing GRRM as enjoying scenes that are clearly portrayed as being traumatic to the characters that are in them.

[(Anonymous)]

Some of what GRRM writes is totally like a porn scene, though.

To me the distinction is that something that's explicitly pornography has an element of wish fulfillment, and at the same time an understanding that there's an element of fantasy and hence that this is something inherently unrealistic. It's much much blurrier in the case of something that's not pornography and hence much more difficult to keep that line of separation.

And let me say again that I don't think GRRM gets to the point where it's a really serious problem.

[(Anonymous)]

This!

After reading his "Not a blog" and seeing his interaction with the actors at Cons nobody will ever convince me that GRRM doesn't get off his own writing.