Case (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
case) wrote in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
fandomsecrets2013-03-13 06:45 pm
case) wrote in fandomsecrets2013-03-13 06:45 pm
[ SECRET POST #2262 ]
⌈ Secret Post #2262 ⌋
Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.
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Notes:
Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #323.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.
no subject
Ah, but that's just the thing! Your perception of what is beneficial is wrong by their standards. You are applying what is beneficial to a human to the house elves. This is what I mean by stressing human psychology over an alien kind. It's hard for people not to do.
even when we see the system causing misery to House Elves.
What is beneficial to a human being? A productive 9-5 job with a loving family? Most people would consider that successful. For some people, it's utterly stifling. Does that mean we should switch to a more socialist state because the state you are in causes some people unhappiness by design?
It shouldn't; at most, it means that society should not limit itself too much into preventing people to achieve happiness elsewhere. Likewise, if the system is allowing for abuse (but the sole cause of it), that part of it should be corrected.
As far as we know, there are no laws or documents enslaving house elves, but rather that elves choose to subjugate themselves and free themselves based on spoken contract. As far as we know, they won't be hunted down if they choose to leave the service of a wizard.
no subject
(Anonymous) 2013-03-14 03:57 am (UTC)(link)No, I didn't do that. The system objectively doesn't benefit them. You're assuming that "they being owned by people and serving" is a significant benefit, but it's a dubious one even by their own standards. The part where they serve is irrelevant because they can do that without being owned. And while they may like the status of being owned, it still harms them because when they're in a situation they don't like they can't do anything to change it. They're completely dependent on the whims of Wizards--that does not benefit them whether or not they like it.
Dobby doesn't want to work for the Malfoys, but he can't leave until he gets a sock from Lucius. Kreacher doesn't want to work for Sirius or Harry but he can't leave. When Winky gets dismissed she loses everything. All these things show House elves hurt by the system. They just don't say it in those terms. Yet everyone's happy with the justification that House Elves like being owned so they have to keep the status quo.
The House Elves' mindset isn't all that hard to wrap a human mind around. The problem isn't that readers just can't really believe House Elves don't want to be freed.
no subject
I don't know if we're really disagreeing here.
I am objecting to the idea that a species that only desires to serve (or be a slave, if you prefer) is wrong somehow. They're not human, and as far as we know they have no human parallels, unlike that extremely racist alien species from that manga from yesterday. They're based on brownies, so it's not even that Rowling herself came up with the concept.
I agree that more could be done to protect house elves. It's apparent that a House Elf, once freed, does not need to be compelled to work, and does not necessarily consider themselves the slaves of the house that takes them in next.
What's not apparent is the nature of the slavery. Once freed, are elves unable to bind themselves to other wizards or households? Do they do so with permission from the wizard only? How does it come about that they choose or find a family or person? Exactly what is the nature of their need to obey? Is it a spell cast over them, or something inherent in their nature?
An obvious compromise is that all wizards must free their elves, who can stay on if they choose, but that might not work if an elf immediately considers themselves a slave if they want to be a slave, and remains compelled.
So, basically, I do not agree with OP that the concept itself is the issue. It is the ambivalence of their situation that might be the issue.