[ SECRET POST #2262 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2262 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 040 secrets from Secret Submission Post #323.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 1 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

There's no evidence that elves have Stockholm Syndrome or whatever. Elves are not human. They are alien. They are different from us. You have to give some kind of credence to what they say and do, and what they say and do, with minor exceptions, indicates that they would prefer to be unpaid servants. You can wish it weren't so, but that's pretty much what we get from the book. You can make up whatever kind of fan theory justifications for how the elves are totally all brainwashed, if that will make you feel better because Slavery Is Always Wrong, but those are still going to be fan theories.

[(Anonymous)]

It fucking blows my mind that someone would just casually say that "Slavery Is Always Wrong" is a flawed concept. By human standards it IS always wrong, and then it's wrong for humans to enslave, even if the creature DID desire it. Humans believe it's just as bad to enslave as to be a slave. The house elves appear perfectly human in every other way, and if they're fucked up enough to think they want to be enslaved, they could be taught that slavery is wrong. Because it is. Always. You say "with minor exceptions", those exceptions being the only two house elves we KNEW. Dobby hated the Malfoys, and he did their bidding not because he wanted to. He smashed his own head into things when he disobeyed them not because he wanted to, but because he was brainwashed. Kreacher despised the Order, and he still did their bidding. They are the only house elves we knew, and we knew that they were not happy slaves.

[(Anonymous)]

- we don't say that it's wrong to enslave a horse or a cow (most of us don't anyway - human society as a whole doesn't). so clearly the nature of the thing enslaved has some central impact on whether or not it is wrong.

- we do know at least one other named house elf - Winky. and not only is Winky a happy slave, she is crushed and depressed and terrified after she is freed - and she wasn't really treated well either, but being freed was something that she regarded as a horrible misfortune. and her attitude was treated as normal and proper by all the other house-elves that we see except for Dobby. even Kreacher isn't unhappy to be a slave, he just hates his master, and even that he arguably does out of commitment to his former master.

why, to your mind, is slavery wrong? to me, it's wrong because it goes against the proper treatment of human beings - it goes against their nature and it goes against their rights and it is wrong to do. if you have a group of beings with a different nature and a difference in what they want and different rights, it wouldn't continue to be wrong. and that's absolutely the way it's presented in the book. and i really, really don't understand why people seem to be so committed to saying that the way it's presented in the book isn't how it really is, and CLEARLY the elves are brainwashed. you simply refuse to actually say what's in the books is what's in the books.

we agree that slavery, in all conditions which actually have or could conceivably come to be in our world, is wrong. that's not at issue. and nothing about the fictional treatment of a race which could not possibly exist could conceivably change that. so i don't understand why it's so important for you and yours to be able to repeat "SLAVERY IS ALWAYS WRONG" with mantra-like intensity.

[(Anonymous)]

and her attitude was treated as normal and proper by all the other house-elves that we see except for Dobby. even Kreacher isn't unhappy to be a slave, he just hates his master, and even that he arguably does out of commitment to his former master.

It was also considered normal that Crouch had no responsibility for Winky after he didn't want her any more--the system is designed to only care about Wizard's wishes.

Kreacher actually was unhappy to be a slave, he just didn't put it in those terms. He was upset that he was forced to be serving people he didn't want to serve. If there was some way for a House Elf to simply put in a request to choose a different master, that would protect House Elves. It would also make them not actually slaves, even if they thought of themselves as such.

So slavery even here is being shown as wrong because it takes away all power for these creatures capable of knowing what they want. Meanwhile wizards get conditioned to think it's fine to make these people suffer because their feelings aren't important and they want it that way.

[(Anonymous)]

ummmmmmmm..... this is late, but we don't say it's wrong to enslave a horse or cow because they're not sentient. at all. house elves are people.