[ SECRET POST #2267 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2267 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 072 secrets from Secret Submission Post #324.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 2 3 - trolls ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

THAT was the most rage inducing moment? not when stiles didn't tell anyone erica and boyd were trapped in creepy grandpas basement? not when jackson didn't die the death he deserved? or MOUNTAIN ASSSSHHHHHHHH? when lydia served no purpose other than being a plot piece for dudes?

[(Anonymous)]

Or even, going with Scott, how he forced Derek to give the bite to pretty much his worst(living) enemy? Something he sees as the only valuable thing about himself?

[(Anonymous)]

I didn't care much about that part tbh.

[nan]

How dare you not care about Derek's manpain, anon. How very dare you.

[(Anonymous)]

his manpain is so boring. plus he is pretty much a grade-a jerk with a side of abuse so. don't get me wrong, i don't hate him, but unlike most teen wolf fandom i don't think he is some poor woobie to be fawned over lol.

[nan]

No, me too, anon. I like Derek but I like him best when he's being portrayed as a big creeper who preys on teenagers. You know. Like how he is in the show.

[(Anonymous)]

It's... not really about his manpain though? it's about the intent behind Scott's actions? It really has nothing to do with Derek, just the action itself which is disgusting.

[nan]

The intent behind Scott's actions was to take down Gerard? And I mean, sure, the bite is a ~gift~. A gift that Derek gave out willynilly because the alpha pack was coming and he needed to secure his base. He gave this gift out without giving it a lot of thought. He picked the easiest targets and went for them, without knowing what kind of people they really were.

(and I'm sure Derek really thought he was doing them a favor! But on the other hand, let's not pretend he wasn't preying on Isaac, Boyd, and Erica, seriously)

SOOOO. Forgive me if I'm not shedding any tears for Derek because he was forced to bite Gerard lmao.

[(Anonymous)]

I mean...I agree that Derek's manpain isn't THAT all-encompassing, but here's some interesting meta about film technique and what it says about the story in that final scene:

http://teenwolfmeta.tumblr.com/post/44089030633/epic-meta-reaction-post-with-visual-and-film-theory

[nan]

That is some very interesting meta! But wasn't Scott suppose to be a villain for a good deal of it? Because that was his plan? For Gerard to think they were on the same team? And if he hadn't had a plan the whole time, if Scott really had been working for Gerard, I would totally agree that he was a complete and utter shithead who deserved all the hate that he got.

But. He wasn't really on Gerard's side. He wasn't really going to let him murder Derek. So I'm still okay with his plan and his actions. :)

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

Yeah, I completely agree. Scott's actions were not the choice that I would have made, but I don't think they're necessarily underhanded or evil or wrong. Scott is supposed to come across as the villain in that scene because he's PLAYING a villain, and he's been legitimately deceiving Derek. It makes sense why he did it, and it makes sense that Derek feels betrayed, since he really kinda was. I don't think it's TERRIBLE AWFUL AND THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO DEREK, but it's still shitty. It really feels like the best of all bad choices.

[nan]

Yeha. I come down hard on Derek because he annoys me and fandom annoys me wrt him (and wrt everything else, tbh) but yeah, it was a shitty situation for him. I just. Don't really fault Scott for the actions that he took because hey, Gerard threatened to kill his mom and Allison was important to him and he wasn't really going to let anything happen to Derek (chances are he doesn't even think Derek being forced to give the bite is that big a deal).

So. I'll go with it was an insensitive plan, lmao.

[(Anonymous)]

YES, "insensitive" is exactly the right word, since really? Derek is pretty low on the list of people for whom Scott feels bad. He's kept a LOT of key information back from Scott, been deliberately dense about the problems Scott faces as a bitten wolf, he creepily turned a bunch of 16-year-olds in werewolves without explaining the consequences (as pointed out by Boyd), and has gone off half-cocked in pursuit of any and all people he thinks MIGHT be the kanima. Scott has no reason to trust Derek, and actually crafted a pretty intelligent and crafty plan to defeat Gerard. Derek's had an amazingly shitty life, which is really the only reason I feel some very strong feelings for him, but Scott really doesn't owe him anything.

[(Anonymous)]

Don't get me wrong, I see your point. And I don't think Derek is some woobie who has no faults. Hell, I am PISSED about the way her seduced Erica, kind of even at the cast and crew for doing it that way. It's fucking gross, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised in a show where an apparent 15 or younger kid was seduced by a grown woman...

But my point is that, well, the bite is pretty much the only thing Derek sees as worthwhile about himself. It wouldn't really matter who it was, what that thing they find confidence in, Scott has pretty much just completely tainted it. It's pretty much just going "You are worthless and have nothing to offer anyone." and no matter someones previous actions, I don't think that is an okay thing to do. I just don't understand why Scott didn't say "oh hay, so Deaton has this plan and we need an alpha bite to kill Gerard. I still fucking hate you but if you want to work together so badly you should bite him and it'll kill him." and hey, Scott wouldn't even have to talk to Derek again after. Just that... lack of consent, making someone completely powerless, it just seems really wrong to me.

[nan]

What if Derek hadn't agreed to bite Gerard? If he thinks it's the only valuable thing, the only thing he has to offer anyone, why would he give it to Gerard? Sure, they were planning on killing him afterwards but still. There was a chance he wouldn't go for it and then boom, there goes Scott's plan.

And I disagree that the bite has been tainted forever in Derek's mind but, eh, that's pretty much an agree to disagree thing.

[(Anonymous)]

Because Derek has such a good track record of cooperating with plans he didn't come up with?? He has such a history of quality decision-making?

I would be surprised if the bite was the only thing Derek saw as worthwhile about himself, seeing as he has only been the alpha for like two weeks. You seem to bringing fanon rather than canon into this conversation. What went down in the finale can't have been pleasant for Derek, but it's not some enormous violation either. He became collateral damage in Scott's plan, which depended on absolute secrecy. It's unfortunate and he has a right to be pissed, but I also don't think Scott was unjustified.

[atgdng]

Yeah, ngl, I don't really like Scott (he's standard teenage male protagonist, I just can't relate to him, eh) but I completely fail to see that particular action as so terrible. Not that Scott doesn't do other shitty things, but if that plan had come from one of the fandom darlings I'm pretty sure it would be being hailed as UTTER GENIUS.

[nan]

Oh man, yes. If this had been Stiles' plan, you can bet fandom would have thought it was the greatest thing ever.

[(Anonymous)]

Um... well. Considering I, and nearly every Stiles fan I know, considers many things he's done as morally reprehensible, I doubt it? Of course there are the types who just are crazy and say every action is wonderful rainbows, they are probably also the type who woobify Loki or something.

Let's see how many things I really despise Stiles for;
Digging up a dead body for kicks.
Being really gross about Lydia.
Telling Lydia that she has no right to find out the truth because it will ~hurt him~
Wanting everyone who causes him inconvenience, that isn't the tiny circle he considers important to him, to die.

There are probably others but fuck, I don't really pay all that much attention.

[nan]

Dude, this fandom has destroyed Stiles. If I see him described as a perfect angel one more time...

well, I'll probably go play video games or something. XD But seriously, this fandom has saintified Stiles to a ridiculous degree and I'm so sick of it. I like Stiles when he's being a pragmatic little shithead and all fandom wants to do is make him pack mom and have him fix everything.

[(Anonymous)]

(da) I'm so with you on this! "Pragmatic little shithead" is a perfect way to describe Stiles. I like that he's an asshole who only cares about three people and is always up for murderin' whoever's causing him a problem and will sacrifice people to attain his goals. I want more of that in fic.

[wake_the_dragon]

I thought his plan was pretty good in that episode, and it worked well.

I used to like Scott a lot in season one, but then started getting more annoyed with him in season two. I don't like a few of his actions in that season, but I have to give him credit for the things he did right too.

[(Anonymous)]

tbh I suspect people who push this angle are badly misinterpreting canon just to get another hit of mangst. There's no canon saying that Derek values the bite like that.

[(Anonymous)]

Ayrt. Yep, because after all those scenes that you mentioned, that was the final straw that broke the poor proverbial camel's back.