[ SECRET POST #2291 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2291 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 020 secrets from Secret Submission Post #327.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[kluify]

Totally agree with a lot of what you're saying here - fandom focuses on the male characters, but also gives most agency and characterisation and respect to those characters, because it is mirroring the source material + sexism blah blah blah. Whereas if you go to most male-dominated fandoms, I can't be sure but I would be willing to guess that agency and respect is still afforded to the male characters, and the female characters get sexually objectified. Because sexism blah blah blah.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm sure it depends on the fandom, but in the nearly all male fandoms I have been in, male characters ARE still given all the agency and respect. Meanwhile, women are mercilessly bashed as "stupid slut-whores, who should be raped and killed" AND ignored and marginalized unless it's to be sexually objectified in a degrading way.

Yeah, I did not stay in those for long.

I would love to find a single exception to the female character bashing. A fandom that just treats women like people. Honestly, fandom is way more misogynist and sexist than "real life." When I talk to co-workers of any gender about the shows I like, they are all about the female characters; then I go online and suddenly, everyone has a weird, huge problem with women.

[anivad]

"I would love to find a single exception to the female character bashing. A fandom that just treats women like people.

Fringe.
Although it's spread out over several places and I might just have been hanging out in the nice parts of it (LJ), because I've heard rumours of wank in other parts of the fandom. But it's notable for how it's the first fandom I've been in where the fic is primarily het, with some femslash, and I put this down to the dominance of well-written female characters in fandom to begin with.

[(Anonymous)]

Fringe was pretty okay in that department until alt!Liv came along and messed with the fandom OTP (peter/liv). Then it turned into a giant clusterfuck of slut-shaming and bashing and hating on Alt!Liv for manipulating Peter. It got even worse when she became pregnant. That shit seemed to die down once Peter/Alt!Liv was over and some fans who had been hating on her then seemingly embraced her in seasons 4 and 5. But that didn't make up for the shit that got thrown her way in season 3.

[anivad]

I missed all of that. :/
plus I was totally shipping Liv/alt!Liv...

[(Anonymous)]

hahaha, I like you and your shipping preferences :) Though I think I wound up shipping them both with the Lincolns just as much as with each other.

[(Anonymous)]

I would love to find a single exception to the female character bashing.

One Piece. Sure, I've come across one or two people who think Nami is a money hungry bitch and hate her, but the vast majority seem to adore the female characters, despite the author-artist guy giving them ever bigger breasts and smaller outfits. I've actually come across much more hate for the male characters.

[kluify]

When I talk to co-workers of any gender about the shows I like, they are all about the female characters; then I go online and suddenly, everyone has a weird, huge problem with women.

That's true as well, actually. It might be a result of online anonymity allowing people to be more offensive without consequences, but I also have a feeling it's to do with the type of people who are drawn to online spaces and forums - specifically people who have been marginalised or don't feel accepted IRL. For instance, I know as a teen I did a bit of female character bashing in fandom spaces because I was young and immature and insecure so seeing women on TV I felt were more beautiful and confident than I could ever be made me feel bad about myself. And that the internet is full of frustrated young men who blame women who don't have sex with them for all their problems in life is pretty self evident.

But then again fandom spaces are often way quicker to point out problematic aspects of a piece of media, like sexism or racism. And I also think there are a lot spaces, or at least people in fandom who genuinely love and celebrate female characters as people, and focus more on them than the original text or the casual viewer does. So idk.

[(Anonymous)]

I may be asking for trouble by bringing this up, but: as you touched on indirectly in your comment, fandom tends to skew younger than "real life." (More so, likely, than is immediately apparent: raise your hand if you've met, or been, an under-13 who lied about their age to start a social account and get involved.) Those of us who are 'over the hill' or close to it are a distinct minority--one whose existence is sometimes doubted or discounted by the younger majority, I might add.

I think this contributes to both the positive and the negative aspects. Younger people, in my experience, tend to be more idealistic and quicker to perceive and protest any form of injustice, and to demand change and progress. But they also tend to see things more in black and white, and can be incredibly judgemental and often downright mean.

I'm not saying there are no mean, judgemental or idealistic older people, of course, or more temperate and thoughtful younger ones, inside or out of fandom; there certainly are. But I do believe both youthful energy and exuberance and life experience count for something.

I wouldn't be too surprised, if it were possible to take an accurate survey, to find that many of the fandoms/ships/etc. that have a reputation for being noisy, disruptive and contentious are composed of younger fans (on average) than those that are known for being calmer and more easy-going. Though I'm certain there would be exceptions to that as well.

[kluify]

Yeah, fandom skewing young totally makes sense - and links up with my point about younger, more immature people being more likely to be, as you said, judgemental and mean because they're also more insecure.

However, I also think another part of the whole 'pointing out problematic aspects' of fandom and creating whole communities dedicated to meta analyses of both the texts and fandom itself is probably due to fandom skewing more middle-class/educated as well. And a lot of the 'older' folk (I feel like I'd probably count as on of your older fans since I'm in my mid-twenties, welp) are often involved in those sorts of areas of fandom.

As well, for some more anecdata, I have noticed that some of the most vitriolic and truly over-invested fans tend to be the older people in fandom whose fandom has become their entire life. You know, the type of people who, if they weren't in fandom would probably be writing love letters to Oscar Pistorius or whatever. And they can often collect themselves a few y(younger) groupies within fandom as well.

So it's a mix again, I guess.

[(Anonymous)]

Legend of the Seeker does better with that than most fandoms I've seen, though it's certainly not perfect.

Pretty Little Liars fandom is pretty good with the 4 main female characters but there's a good deal of bashing toward some of the minor female characters.

I don't know enough about the Bomb Girls fandom to know if that one is an exception but I do know the show does a tremendously beautiful job with all of the main female characters (and there are MANY of them.)


Breaks my heart I can only think of three and none of them are perfect. (Well, BG might be but I'm not getting my hopes up.) And they are all female-centric shows. (LotS has a male lead but Cara + Kahlan seem to get way more fannish attention than Richard and C/K is the main ship.)

[(Anonymous)]

There's always the Battlestar fandom. At least most of the LJ part of it. The woman are adored and all the biggest fandom darlings are female. Just as much femslash as slash too.