[ SECRET POST #2301 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2301 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Sorry for lateness, had internet issues.

FOR LIVESTREAMERS: Please post stream announcements under the events thread instead of in the General Comments. And here's your warning: huge images are going to just be deleted. ):

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 078 secrets from Secret Submission Post #329.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[cadremage]

That last bit is bothersome to me, as well, largely because I think it leads people to have incredibly unrealistic expectations. They think that if they can just get enough people to give up their religion, then a whole host of social problems will just disappear. Well, not only is that not true, but it's also logically unsound: if religion is entirely man-made, then those bits of it that reinforce hateful or bigoted or problematic views were created by people who already held those hateful or bigoted or problematic views. And if such views necessarily exited pre-religion, then there's no reason to expect them to disappear post-religion.

[(Anonymous)]

^ Yeah this. Also demanding a person give up their religion if they aren't actually bothering anyone is...well terrible.

I grew up with somewhat conservative Christian parents. But my parents really focused on the "love thy neighbor" part, when I was a little girl my mom would remind me that "God loves you". When I was going through a problem with OCD and had disturbing intrusive thoughts that related to religion -I talked about them with my parents. They reassured me I wasn't a bad person and it wasn't my fault I had these things in my brain, that they were just thoughts.

Even now when I grew older they want me to make my own choice to go to church rather than do it because I was forced. If people use religion as a weapon that's the fault of the people. IIRC there were people like that in the Bible...Jesus told them they were doing it wrong every time they gave him trouble.

[(Anonymous)]

Some people use blind obedience to religion as a substitute for independent thinking, but in the absence of religion there's nothing keeping them from blindly obeying something else or any guarantee they'd be any good at independent thinking. :-(

Religion can be a very powerful tool for good or evil. Like dynamite.

[(Anonymous)]

SA

No, sorry, dynamite's a bad comparison, it only destroys. Some tool that can destroy or sustain?

[(Anonymous)]

Water?

It can be very sustaining and useful for life, but people have also been known to drown in knee-high puddles.

[(Anonymous)]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

this.

Plus, I think the "no religion any more" scenario is an unrealistic one.
Just as there have always been skeptics, there have always been superstitions and spirituality in some form or another. And there probably always will be. (Tbh, I think it's possible some people are neurologically "wired" to be more spiritually inclined than others, but I'll have to look up some studies on that and get back to you.)

Even if people didn't have religion, they'd probably substitute it for something else.

[truxillogical]

Shoot, there was this great book I was reading awhile back, I think it was called "The Science of Belief." Something like that. And it was just talking about all the various superstitions and residual spirituality that even skeptics still practice without even regarding it as such. Things like the piano John Lennon wrote "Imagine" on touring around the troubled places in the country (like post-Katrina New Orleans) and it being a big deal to see it, touch it, or play it, even though physically it isn't any different from a piano of the same make. Or how folks wouldn't share drinks with someone who was sick, but they might still kiss their partner or loved ones with the reasoning of "their germs won't make me sick." Just a lot of little things that add up.

I mean, I am Christian, so I always get happy when I see Christian characters who are portrayed as good, decent people who are bolstered by their faith instead of using it as a cudgel (characters like Father Mulcahy from M*A*S*H and Michael from Dresden Files). Anywho...

[(Anonymous)]

That's pretty fascinating. You see it with totalitarian regimes, as well, and the deification of leaders, like Stalin and Lenin. You could almost make the case there's a "deification" of some celebrities as well.

I'm a Christian, too! :)

I get why a lot of atheists get pretty pissed off at religion (and I agree with them, tbh - I don't think religious organizations should be exempt from the law.)

But I think a lot of debates create this dichotomy between "science" vs "religion", and "Christianity" vs "atheism", and there's no grey area.
I see science and religion as different ways of looking at the world; not opposing forces constantly at war. Personally, I don't find conflict between evolution and science, and my own religion.

There's also this assumption that some people make, that if you're religious, you can't think. You're stupid and dumb and a mindless sheep. And that annoys me. I've spent years thinking about my beliefs and questioning things; it's a constant process. Doubt, for me, is a really important part of faith - it's a bit like pruning a plant as it grows.

[anonymouslyyours]

It's not something I'm particularly proud of but I kind of have a knee-jerk reaction to religious people... it's not that I think they don't think. It's that I think they don't want to think (when it comes to some things).

I don't know how fair that is and am relatively sure that's my own perception coloring things.

I just know how much I would love to have something to believe in. Sometimes its just scary that there aren't any grand answers at all or feeling of faith for me. So when it comes to the meaning of life and what happens after death, justice, etc., etc. I think for religious people it is easier to just have faith and not have to think about it.

And I know a lot of religious people say having faith is difficult but this might be one of those times where you can't really understand how difficult not having faith can be, even when ultimately you don't want it.

[(Anonymous)]

I love thinking, I do it almost everyday! ;)

Jokes aside, the practice of "having faith"... (and for me, at least, it's a practice, it's something I actively do when I wake up in the morning)... that can be intimidating, in a way, because it's not something based in knowing, in the way I would read a book. It's based more on a gut-feeling, and feelings can be mutable. idk, it's difficult for me to explain, i'm not very good at this, sorry :/

I was an atheist for a while (and a whole bunch of other things), and unfaith also had its terrifying moments... but it had good moments, too.

Whatever you choose, whatever path you take, I hope you have those good moments, too! :)

(I've seen some of your comments b/c i lurk on F!S a lot, and you seem like a really awesome person in general.)

[truxillogical]

Doubt, for me, is a really important part of faith - it's a bit like pruning a plant as it grows.

That is a truly beautiful way of putting it.

And you're exactly right. It's important to question your beliefs, be they secular or spiritual. People need to question their perceptions of how the world works, even if they don't come to a new an earth-shattering conclusion afterwards. That's how humanity moves forward, after all. "When I was a child, I thought as a child" and all that.

I really do hate the black-and-white Science vs Religion thing that gets going on. Like, "Science put a guy on the moon; religion blew up a building!" (And religion opened shelters and soup kitchens; science invented the atom bomb.) People are people, and as satisfying as a tribal "us versus them" mentality is, it just makes things worse. (And for the record, I went to a Catholic school and they taught us evolution. Never even realized there were people who thought those things should contradict until I was way older.)

[(Anonymous)]

wow, they taught you evolution in catholic school?!

mind=blown

in hindisght, i realize that i went to a pretty fundamentalist school, that taught creationism. (i remember having an argument with my bible studies teacher, who kept insisting people were walking around with dinosaurs 4000 years ago... good times!)

[(Anonymous)]

It depends on country as well - the US is the only Western country where it's an "accepted scientific truth" - in the UK any Catholic school receiving any state funding (most do) CAN'T teach creationism as anything other than a religious belief, and evolution will be on the national curriculum.

[truxillogical]

Yeah, I mean, I remember learning the creation story as well, but not being taught anything about Flintstone-topia. Actually, I remember at some point in either religion class or social studies, learning a brief bit about Islam, and learning about burkas and stuff made very-young me furious, and I said something like, "That's stupid!" and wound up getting an in-class lecture about respecting other people's religions and culture. Go figure.


Of course, that same school has recently implemented an official "morality clause" meaning they can fire teachers for being gay or taking birth control, last I heard, so...yeah.