fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2307 ]

[ SECRET POST #2307 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2307 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 101 secrets from Secret Submission Post #330.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 1 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

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Quoting: I'm Capn Ro-Lal, all aboard the SS. LE SIGN.

Ok, so. Workshop. These dudes are mediocre at best and yet everyone are constantly asspatting each other after each reading. They say like, "OMG THIS WAS SO DEEP AND MEANINGFUL" followed up by heartful discussion of how awesome are their stories. Which... actually are quite badly written and plain. I'm sorry to say so. Almost always, I keep my opinions to myself because frequently I end up really puzzled by what they meant with their texts and their lack of... everything.

Then it's my turn, I read my story, and there follows a long silence before the first one says "I didn't get it, you were too hermetic again, you gotta make it easier for the reader", and that's the cue for everyone to start tearing me to shreds.

Before, this would have made me depressed as fuck and I would have felt unworthy, and never came back. Now I just smile and nod and take the criticisms (TOTALLY MISGUIDED CRITICISM, I'll get to that) while cheerfully thinking to myself how it's not my fault they lack any reading comprehension and that I should feel more secure on my stories.

I strive to be better at my craft, so I really try to listen, see if there's something useful in what they say, and discard the rest. Sadly, almost always it's just a pompous group attack with little meat on it. I had no self-esteem and was dangerously humble before this workshop, and now the situation is pushing me in the opposite direction. I don't want to end up conceited. I want to be able to take a critical look at my writing and polish it.

You should hear the things they say /)_- For example, "your language is too complicated" is a favourite of them. But I don't write in purple prose, or weave intrincate sentences with a thesaurus on my hand. I'm just above average.

This time it was a cyberpunk story and the whole action happened inside the main character's head, while she was neurologically conected to the 'net. And after I finished the first question was "wait, but where was this happening again?". Then "your references are too obscure". Then
"you shouldn't make quotes if they aren't classic". "Use Hamlet next time". (Yeah, seriously).

My personal favorite today: "I'm sorry, but I just can't buy the idea of an Hispanic mathematician". (Lol what)

Indeed it's irritating, but after I cool down, after a couple of hours... it ends up being amusing, even. And I end up with the conviction that I can do better than these people.

The aforementioned question would be: Has anything like this happened to you in Writer's Workshops and the likes? How have your experiences been in these kinds of activities?

Well, they sound like dicks. The Hispanic mathematician line confirms it.

I recommend the book Toxic Feedback by Joni Cole. It's all about how to give better feedback, and how to identify and ignore the bullshit.

In a college creative writing class I had a girl say that she didn't like how the main character was "WHOA, SUDDENLY GAY!" at the end, and maybe it was a poorly-written story (I had written it the night before and done hardly any revising, but this was one of those classes people took because they thought it would be an easy A and if you knew how to write at all the teacher acted like you were a genius), but uh, that was the point of the story.

The director of the workshop suggested I used a German/Jewish name for the fictional mathematician tangentially mentioned in the story, and I told him no, there are already too many caucasians in Sci-fi, I wanted an Hispanic mathematician to appear in the story. So he said "well, if you want to be ~that edgy~ and push the envelop that much, make him a Mapuche or something" and everyone laughed and I was like "O_O".

Thanks for the rec! I'll check if it's available near me <3

I don't think a surprise ending equals a poorly-written story, fwiw. Even more when that's the point. It happened to me a couple of weeks ago too.

Heh. The story was about a woman coming to terms with her daughter being gay, and it was the first time they had spoken in years. I was trying to illustrate that they were dancing around the issue and being awkward. So yeah, her complaint bugged me.

And uhhhh. WOW. I hope you keep writing everything your way just to show those assholes.

lol, tell them about the Ramanujan Prize in Mathematics. Half of the winners are from Mexican, Argentine, Brazilian. If the time frame is okay for your purposes, you could even make your character a recipient.

lol, "pushing the envelope". It's like they're unaware that there are universities in other countries, and that they teach mathematics.

While I agree that wanting and having a Hispanic mathematician is totally legit, I am always depressed at the lack of Orthodox Jewish representation in any and all media :<

/tangentially related

LOL sounds hilarious. Don't you consider leaving this place? I mean, it may be good for your sense of humour, but it doesn't seem very useful writing-wise.

Especially the "your language is too complicated" part.
Or the bit about mathematicians. I just. What even.

Nothing like this has ever happened to my works of fiction, but it did happen to some thoughts and ideas I expressed. For a while I'd been in an environment where I would say a long sentence with complex syntax and then suddenly discover that nobody understood what I just said. It constantly happened to me in my school years (I don't think it has anything to do with my intelligence, it was rather the fact that children from my school had a completely different linguistic/cultural background).

I can't leave :/ It's a paid workshop and I already handed in the cash for the semester. I guess all I have left is indeed keep on going and see if there's something I can learn. If anything, it forces me to have a rythm in my writing (and produce something weekly) instead of just writing whenever inspiration strikes.

Also... well. I don't know if it's just because I like to be contrary to people, but all of them being dicks is making me feel quite more secure in what I do. I wish they weren't so exhasperating, though. I need some motivation to wake up early on saturdays and go to this thing and they're kind of killing it.

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you! Indeed, there are a series of factors that could have had to do with it, not all of them intelligence-related. It sucks when one cannot make oneself understood. Are things better now?

Well, it's good if this shit brings you something good :) I wish you luck! It would be funny if they knew of the way their remarks affect you.

I hadn't been terribly upset about being misunderstood; I was (am) a loner, other people had been a minor concern.
But my current environment is certainly closer to the one I was upbrought in, and I'm grateful for an occasional chat on a book I read or an issue I find interesting.

If anything, it forces me to have a rythm in my writing (and produce something weekly) instead of just writing whenever inspiration strikes.

That is exactly the reason I'm trying to see if I can get into a workshop right now. Putting challenges and deadlines on myself just doesn't work the same way having them forced on me by a teacher ever did. The money and time is a concern, however.

I'm sorry you're having such a horrible workshop experience :c It seems useless if those people with the mediocre writing are just getting asspats and no con crit, then there was no point in doing the workshop. You should try to voice some.
I've only been in a workshop group once before, and overall it was an ok experience. It helped me improve the pieces I shared, but I had similar problems with the group. These two girls both had very similar ways of writing and it was always something trying to be meaningful and I'd always interpret it differently from what the author intended, but then the other girl would say, "I actually think it was this" and the author would say that's what they meant. No one really connected with me over our works together.

Would things go particularly badly for you if you started handing out honest criticism and feedback to some of these people, since they're so eager to try to tear down your work for being over their heads?

It's probably a good thing I'm not in this class, because one week I'd likely be tempted to do something like come in and say, "On a number of occasions, I've received criticism from you guys that the language I use in my writing is too complicated; I've taken that criticism on board, and come up with something a little different this week," and then proceed to read my "See Spot Run"-style story with tiny sentences and no word more than five letters long, intended as a pointed comment on the reading level of everyone else in the workshop. I assume none of them would get it, anyway.

My workshop experience was pretty damn good, though it was intro lvl. Yours definitely sucks; I'd say that if you can't leave the class, and this isn't harming your writing confidence, then bring out the big guns and start dishing out some well- deserved criticism. Mind, don't mindlessly tear into them; someone may have an interesting concept and they just don't write very well, or something like that. Just, you know, true criticism.

Though I think that reading the stories aloud isn't doing anyone any favors. It's a weird presentation format for a writing class :\

Really? My creative writing class had us read our stories outloud, and I always hear pro authors saying it's the best way to make sure the dialogue feels natural. Some give public readings specifically to see what they need to work out.

How would you do it differently? I've had classes where we just read each other's stuff and write down our critiques, but those were intro English classes that were more focused on essay writing.

Damn, I remember you being excited about this. I'm sorry it's turning about to be practically useless, especially as you've paid for it and are having to get up early. :(

I can understand if not, but would you be able to give them some feedback on their works? Not in a "revenge!" type of way, but a "this is a workshop, here is my feedback" one. After all, it could give you an opportunity to practice your critiquing skills, and maybe they will take your advice on board and get better. (Then again, maybe not. They sound like idiots.)

I hope things at the workshop improve for you. :)

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[ SECRET POST #2307 ]

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