[ SECRET POST #2314 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2314 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 04 pages, 096 secrets from Secret Submission Post #331.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - posted twice ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I massively disagree with everything you've said here. For one thing, Journey's End =/= the entirety of Davies' run. Moffat's sexism is pervasive and little things pop up in every episode and the big things fill the entire arc of his female characters. Davies' just randomly crops up in a "dude, did you even think about what this looks like" way, and almost all of it cropped up only in Journey's End. Which is the worst episode Davies ever wrote, so it's not like it's representative.

The bottom line is that with Davies, there is way more to his portrayal of female characters than just romance and sexist things, and the type of romance and sexism is way less revoltingly awful (to most people) and explicitly gendered than Moffat's type of romance and sexism - no brainwashed child brides or mystical incubator pregnancies or women talking about how you shouldn't let him see you age or claiming that the pain of the entire universe is less important than their pain at losing the Doctor or being told to "grow up" by taking their husband's name or the Doctor joking that someone is acting irrational because she's "brainwashed, also, she's a woman" in Davies.

So with Davies, we've got some problematic plot points and romantic cliches thrown into a much more substantial and active character arc with far more fleshed out character development. On the other hand, Moffat's female characters don't have much more to them apart from the sexist parts, and the sexist parts are much bigger parts of his female characters' stories, so it's obvious why they are picked on far more.

Of course, it's partly due to perception -- what bothered you personally about Davies may have bothered you way more than the things that bothered you about Moffat. And that's fine. But there's a reason most people find Moffat's writing far more sexist than Davies, and it's not because they're stupid. It's because of how they perceive his problematic elements in the context of his full body of work.

tl;dr, if Moffat's writing was more substantial and his character development better, people would be more forgiving of his sexist bits, because the sexist bits wouldn't seem like the only thing there.

[(Anonymous)]

^This. I hate Moffat's sexism for how in-your-face it is and how hard it is to escape it, because it keeps coming up in so much of his writing.

However, my dislike of Moffat is not a case of "is he better or worse than RTD?" RTD doesn't figure into my criticisms of Moffat, except for explaining that the fact I'm a Doctor Who fan is because RTD's writing had a lot of material that was untainted by sexism and therefore didn't put me off, because it was easy to avoid the bits that were sexist.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, character development like Nice Guy (TM) Mickey and Pine For Rose Forever Let Me Angst For Three Seasons Ten. Totally so much better.

[(Anonymous)]

Yes, it is so much better from a "depth and extent of character development" standpoint, because you know full well that you're massively cherry-picking a couple of individual traits out of many, many traits and evolving character threads. *eyeroll* Whether you personally enjoyed said character development and character traits is up to you, but it's an entirely different topic.

Also, part of said character development involved Mickey changing from a pathetic whiny loser to a competent badass who shaped up and took control of his life choices about things that didn't go his way instead of being a dick about them and blaming them on other people. So yeah, lotsa character development there too.