fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2336 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2336 ⌋

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OP, the way I think of it is this:

My aunt had, due to cancer, a double mastectomy, a hysterectomy, etc. She had pretty much no genetalia/sexual organs left. Did it make her less of a woman than people who got to keep theirs? Absolutely not. She still felt like a woman, so she was a woman.

If someone was born without genetalia, but called themself "Maria", I would have no problem thinking of them as a woman.

It's not much farther to say that say that someone can feel like a woman, and thereby be a woman, if they had started life off with a penis.

But really the difference is not in the genitalia, it is in the brain.

Plus in some countries Maria is actually a man's name.

That's actually what I was getting at. My aunt still considered herself a woman, even though she lacked the physical parts, so she was a woman.

My aunt had, due to cancer, a double mastectomy, a hysterectomy, etc. She had pretty much no genetalia/sexual organs left. Did it make her less of a woman than people who got to keep theirs? Absolutely not. She still felt like a woman, so she was a woman.

That's a bad analogy. That's like say, if a car loses its wheels and doors, is it still a car? Yes, because it started with all the parts that made up a car. Just like your aunt started with all the parts that made up a female.

A transgendered man to woman person did not start with the biological organs that science would identify as being part of the female anatomy. So, the two stories are more on the apples and oranges scale.

The difference is that my aunt had sentience and agency. She was a woman because she considered herself to be one, whether she had the parts or not. True, she was born with them, but my point was that body does not equal mind.

Actually, all humans start out as effectively female, and males and females all have analogous parts. Every male started out with parts that could make up a female, and every female has parts that males start out with. Just because they came out a little different, or wound up in a different spot, doesn't mean these parts aren't made out of the same materials to provide similar functions. (And to go even further, we all started out as the same two things: a sperm and an egg. Then we were all zygotes. Then we were all sexless fetuses. Genetically speaking, every single person started out as the same damn thing with the same damn parts.)

Or another way to look at it: what do you define "human" as being? We're bipedal, but if somebody was born without legs, are they no longer human, because they didn't start out with all the parts to make them human? We have 23 pairs of chromosomes, so is a person with Down Syndrome not human? We only have hair on certain parts of our bodies, so are people born with defects that make them completely hairless not human?

Or do you just not understand that people are greater than the sum of their parts?

I have to step in and say you are doing a bad analogy too.

The example of "If a human is born without legs, is it still a human?" Does not work. Because in order for it to be a example of transgender, you would have to use an example of where the human started not without legs but having legs of something else. Like if a human was born with goat legs, is it still a human? Because a transgendered person is not born without a sex. (Except for the rare cases where people are born with both sex genitals.) A transgendered person starts of with the genitals of one sex but feels that they are the wrong genitals for him/her.

So, is a human still a human if it has goat legs?

I don't have clue.

I was doing an analogy to their argument - specifically, the comment about "start[ing] with all the parts that made up a female." I was trying to make a point that we can start out missing parts and still be that thing. A human is still a human even if they start out missing a chromosome, a woman is still a woman if she starts out missing a uterus, and a man is still a man if he starts out missing a penis.

Is an individual still an individual even if they absorbed their twin in utero and were born with four extra limbs? Science says yes.

(Also, it's rather rude to reduce the transgender experience to genitals alone: many trans* folks are fine with their particular bits. There are a great many things that contribute to gender dysphoria, and reducing it to genitals alone seeks to invalidate many people's experiences that don't involve that particular discomfort.)

So everyone is a special and unique snowflake. Got it.

[ SECRET POST #2336 ]

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.

Re: Transgenderism or whatever.