fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2339 ]

[ SECRET POST #2339 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2339 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 031 secrets from Secret Submission Post #334.
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Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Would anyone mind reading something I want to add to a discussion about this issue? The question asked was if women should be able to be topless in areas where men can be, and the typical arguments against it seems to be that breasts are more sexual than a man's chest is, and that the two aren't equivalent, and blah blah.

I wrote a response, but I'm terrible at arguing points and I always worry that what makes sense in my head never translates well. Here it is:

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A man's chest is considered a sexual thing and yet men don't get arrested or fined for walking around bare. Men don't have to deal with sexual harassment to the extent that women do if they choose to go topless.

You should also consider *why* female's breasts are so oversexualized. For centuries women have been shamed into covering up every inch of their skin to preserve their modesty and, frankly, make them appear like an unwrapped gift for suitors. It's for that reason why men still react so strongly to large displays of female skin. It's just one huge social construct, just like the whole "boys can't wear pink because it's unnatural" thing. It makes absolutely no sense that a color could influence a child in any way, or state something about their character or sexual preference, and yet it does. Why? Because at some point society said "pink is for girls, not boys, and boys who like pink are sissies and/or gay". It makes absolutely no sense, and yet this belief is so ingrained into our society that we revere this as truth and fight against those who try to contradict it.

It's not just women's breasts that are oversexualized. It's our entire bodies. I deal with and hear about this crap all the time. Women can't wear tank tops, skirts, shorts, or bikinis without being slobbered all over and disrespected, and yet guys have absolutely no problem wearing shorts, pants so low their entire ass is showing, wife beaters, speedos, trunks, and of course going topless. Put a woman wearing a tank top and a man wearing a wife beater next to each other and it's the woman who will be scolded for showing off too much skin, objectified, leered at, groped, and so on.

Not to say that an attractive man won't be objectified and leered at, either. I myself would be the first to check out a good looking guy's chest if it's on display. But I certainly don't feel that it's within my rights to grope them because they're on display, or stare at them like it's the only worthwhile object on them, or make the man feel like he's a whore for showing skin.

At the end of the day, our upper bodies are the same. We each have an areola, we each have a nipple, we each have breast tissue, and we each have different sized chests.

That one is more sexualized than the other is a result of society's history of controlling, shaming, and objectifying women. Women have always been forced to cover up, and the fact that breasts are often hidden and off-limits just enhances the arousal factor. It's got absolutely nothing to do with logic. But then, most social constructs rarely do.

It reads fine to me but I've had a really long day and don't trust my judgement all that much. I'm only responding because I wanted to point you to the NYC law about this issue. This link to a blog article about it has relevant links included, and you can google the actual law if you want to read it.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/06/topless_bowery.php

seems okay to me

if everyone went topless from now on, everyone would eventually get used to it

it might take a generation or two, but it would work

I'd shut myself inside until I died of starvation. *mastrophobic*

I don't think you need to worry about posting that -- it's eloquent and calm, and has some good points as well. The only thing I'm a bit unsure about is the "pink" part... I feel like the majority of people haven't had any issues with men wearing pink for a long time now (see Miami Vice for example), and it felt a bit like you veered off the subject. But that's just me, so don't feel like you should remove that bit or anything!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink#In_gender

There was a time when pink was considered a manly color and blue the more feminine color.

That's a good point, too!

Ah, beat me to it.

Also, boys used to wear dresses until a certain age. I think this stopped relatively recently, too. There's a photography of my dad in a dress as a little boy and he was born in 1952. They're more like gowns but still

Can't speak for everyone, but personally boys in my family aren't allowed to wear pink. I have two younger brothers and an older one, and it's strictly not allowed (same as they weren't allowed to play with dolls and such).

My older brother came from college once wearing a pink polo shirt and my parents had a bitch fit at him, telling him that he looked gay.

Maybe it's just my parents who are really backwards, though.

(This is why I left home at 18 and never looked back. Only keep in touch with bros, now. Parents and I just don't get along. :( )

Aw, I'm so sorry to hear that. It really sounds like a crappy situation, I'm glad you got away from it -- and that you're still able to keep in touch with your brothers.

It's probably a thing that varies from country to country. I could see certain Americans (the radically religious types) being very uptight about it.

My rather religious (Catholic) family had a whole discussion over Thanksgiving dinner about how great it was that it's no big deal for guys to wear pink now. It was cool until they got into "it's nice to be able to wear what you like without everyone assuming you're gay." In general that's the stance most religious people I know of take on it. It's one of those weird times when they and I have the same opinion for the complete opposite of reasons.

Damn, that's a bummer. Almost there, yet miles away...

that really sucks, sorry

i'm glad you managed to keep a good relationship with your brothers, at least

Where I live boys wearing pink would be considered very weird. People might not have a PROBLEM with it, but it would definitely be strange.

The only exception is if it's for a breast cancer thing, but I know some boys who are too macho/afraid of looking giry even for that. 'XD

Did you know pink used to be for boys until relatively recently? And blue was considered a color for girl infants.

I agree with you about the topless thing and there are days when it's so hot I'd like to go around topless. I think in the future as attitudes change it may not be such a big deal to go topless, really. It's already ok to show bra straps in most contexts (unless you're at work or in a formal environment). It's sort of a fashion trend right now to wear a visible bra under a sheer top or even wear a top that sort of looks like a bra by itself. Maybe that could extend in the future to an acceptance of toplessness, but the fashion industry could be in trouble if that was the case!

Apparently in Austin it's not illegal to go topless in public, but the only places that anyone really does that are at public pools and even then annoying assholes bitch about it (though the can't do anything, haha). I've thought about sunbathing topless at Barton Springs a few times but I haven't had the courage to do so yet.

This is a good post and you should feel good about yourself!

Any chance this is connected to this petition?

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/prohibit-straight-men-driving/Rt1ljN4f

No, but I came across that petition a while ago and though it was FABULOUS. LOL.

I can't believe they haven't nuked that petition yet. It violates so many of the WtP terms and makes a mockery of the whole We the People platform :(

Sometimes I read these things and wonder just what kind of place the OP is living in that people behave the way they describe, leering and groping and such. Maybe it's a regional or a big-city thing?

At any rate, to address the original point, I don't consider a man's chest a particularly sexual thing for the simple reason that in my experience, mens' nipples don't seem to be anywhere near as sensitive an erogenous zone as womens'. YMMV, of course.

I've been leered at pretty much everywhere, pretty much since I hit puberty. I've been groped walking down a street in a London suburb while carrying bags of groceries and covered from my neck down to the ground, I've been groped on a Greyhound bus going between two bitty college towns in California while wearing jeans and a grubby sweatshirt, I've been followed home, followed to work, catcalled pretty much everywhere... and I'm not possessed of spectacularly huge boobs, and I'm kind of tubby and average, looks wise. I think some guys are just assholes wherever they are.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

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oversexualizing breasts = social construct

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