[ SECRET POST #2351 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2350 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 05 pages, 113 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I don't watch Doctor Who so I don't know if you're right or wrong in this specific instance, but I've been thinking this same thing about other things -- that SJW's have reached a point where it is literally unacceptable to make any subjective judgments about art so if you want to criticize a work of art, it has to be from a social justice perspective, not an aesthetic one. And that's really wrong on so many levels.

[(Anonymous)]

Can I have what you're smoking?

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah they score every show on a checklist. Nothing can be enjoyed if it does not meet the SJW checklist and anything that does must be adored. Regardless of how enjoyable or crap the respective shows actually are. The SJWs actually, genuinely, believe they are better at show writing from their bedrooms and mom's basements than people who make shows for a living.

[(Anonymous)]

I am.

[(Anonymous)]

Fuck you Whedon, you stay out of this thread!

[fauxkaren]

The two ideas of a show doing a good job wrt social justice and being good from an aesthetic perspective are not antithetical.

In this case, River Song as a character fails on both fronts imo. There are some real issues from a social justice point of view with how she was written, but also, it's just a bunch of really sloppy writing.

[(Anonymous)]

"The two ideas of a show doing a good job wrt social justice and being good from an aesthetic perspective are not antithetical."

Of course not, but the point is that my perception is subjective critiques are just not acceptable. That once a show or movie or book or whatever has gotten their SJW seal of approval, it's absolutely not okay to point out what's wrong with it, and conversely, any show that is SJW condemned cannot possibly have any good things about it.

[intrigueing]

any show that is SJW condemned cannot possibly have any good things about it.

...really? :\ I do not want to know what fandom circles THAT shit happens. I mean...don't most people care way more and raise way more of a fuss when problematic things happen in good shows that they like as opposed to bad ones? No1curr if lowest-common-denominator CBS sitcom #153 has some stupid sexist stereotype in it, whereas everyone raises a stink when a show people adore falls into some sexist stereotype that should be beneath it.

[(Anonymous)]

I see it mostly on ONTD. On Tumblr it's much easier to avoid.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not really true at all, at least in my experience, anon. I've seen many, many people in fandom circulate articles like "how to be a fan of problematic media".

Basically the idea, even among some of the most social justice-y social justice folks, is that it's completely okay to like and be okay with something that's problematic or offensive as long as you acknowledge that it is problematic or offensive and don't try to fight or deny people who criticize the problematic or offensive elements of the media.

So, like, basically, you can totally call out Moffat's Who for its sexism and still like watching it (I can't imagine how, personally, but that's because I think the writing is worse than some kindergarten picture books I've read). The point is that you recognize the problematic elements - such as Moffat's sexism, racism, and homophobia - and don't try to tell people they don't exist or that they're not allowed to not like the show because of those elements (so, no telling people "there's no sexism in this show!" when there is, and no getting pissy with, say, a gay person who doesn't want to watch Doctor Who anymore because of Moffat's homophobia).

I mean, fuck's sake, I have social justice type friends who are enormous fans of incredibly problematic shows like Teen Wolf and Game of Thrones. They acknowledge the problematic aspects, but also acknowledge that they enjoy watching it.. and as long as they don't start telling people the problematic shit doesn't exist, or protesting that minorities who are treated poorly by the shows shouldn't dislike the shows due to that, they're cool.

And while every show has its hyper-defensive fans, I've never seen anyone say it's not okay to point out something wrong with a show that social justice types like.

[(Anonymous)]

"how to be a fan of problematic media".


Talk about the bits you enjoy. Keep your mouth shut if you see something you don't like. No one is in fandom to be preached at.

Thar ye go.

[(Anonymous)]

nayrt

Um, wow no. People have the right to discuss and criticize things they don't like and find problematic. And they have the right to argue - politely - with people who disagree with them.

What people don't have the right to do is to barge into unrelated discussions to whine about how Thing X is so problematic, or to bash people for liking something problematic and not being fussed about the problematic stuff because "omg why aren't you more pissed off about Thing X???" That's just being an asshole.

[mimi-sardinia.livejournal.com]

You fail at reading.

[iggy]

Yeah this. You don't have to bring sexism into the picture for Moffat's writing of her character to be crap.

[(Anonymous)]

What are you even on? People always talk about how SJW are everywhere, but really? That's just not even a little true.

[(Anonymous)]

Huh? I didn't say they were everywhere. Anyway, have you ever been on ONTD? SJW city. Possibly even SJW headquarters!

[lex_antonia]

ONTD has over a hundred thousand members. You'll find every school of thought you're looking for on a single page.

[(Anonymous)]

That's not what I've seen or experienced. I've been viciously attacked for having a differing opinion so lately I mostly keep my mouth shut.

[mechanosapience]

Have all the crazies moved from _p to the mothership, or has there just not been anything to get the SJWs into a frenzy?

[lex_antonia]

If you say SJW three times in front of a mirror at midnight, tumblr will eat your soul.

[(Anonymous)]

Tumblr will have to fight PlanetAll for it. My soul was devoured by it long ago.

[(Anonymous)]

And the warriors on the anti-SJ side have made it unacceptable to make any judgements about media that aren't from a subjective and aesthetic perspective (case in point: this secret), so basically no one is allowed to publicly dislike anything for any reason and the only way to be at all critical without getting pounced on is to set up an echo chamber somewhere and preach to the choir.

[(Anonymous)]

Hah, yeah. Or post to Fandom Secrets so that you won't be ostracized for having an opinion that other people don't agree with.