[ SECRET POST #2354 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2354 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.


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02.
[Kodomo no Jikan]


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03.
[figure skating/Brian Joubert]


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04.
[Stargate: Atlantis/ Sesame Street]


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05.
[K project]


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06.
[Teen Wolf]


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07.
[Married...With Children]


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08.
[Homestuck]


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09.
[One Piece]


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10.
[Game of Thrones]


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11.
[Pokémon Black & White]


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12.
[Phantom of the Opera 2004]


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13.
[Iron Man 3]


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14.
[Neverwinter Nights 2]


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15.
[Almost Human/Total Recall 2077]


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16.
[Neil Gaiman and Amanda Palmer]


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17.
[Fire Emblem: Awakening]


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18.
[A Bag of Hammers]


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19.
[Without a Trace]


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20.
[Big Bang Theory]


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21.
[The Three Investigators]


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22.
[Team Fortress 2]


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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 043 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - personal attack ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

NA

A small, fictional child. Seriously -- I'm assuming the OP isn't diddling real children, so why the hate?

OP

[(Anonymous)]

"I'm assuming the OP isn't diddling real children"


If I need to confirm, no, I'm not, wtf? :|

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

na

A lot of that kind of material is used by abusers to groom actual children, so the "ablooabloo it's just fiction, stop hating on my creepiness" song and dance isn't bulletproof.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Abusers might use lolicon to groom children, which is morally reprehensible, yes. But why is that the OP's responsibility? Sie understands that lolicon is 100 percent fictional, and should not be recreated in RL at all. Why should sie have to censor the type of media sie likes just because a couple sick fucks use it to abuse real children? If I use The Anarchist Cookbook to build a bomb and kill someone, should the book be censored?

OP

[(Anonymous)]

You beat me to it, but yeah, it's not like there's a huge part of the population who likes animal fighting just because they like Pokemon

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Look, okay, I'm too tired for this game right now. I'll just say I can't help being suspicious of people who are super invested in defending fictional pedo wank fodder because it's technically ~free speech~ or whatever. I can't think of a non-horrible reason to.

(Also the Anarchist Cookbook is actually pretty much 100% bullshit, but that's another story)

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

na

The thing is, it's not some "game." When you use a bad argument in the name of what is certainly a good cause (protecting children from rapists), that doesn't make it stop being a bad argument, but it will make people think they can use the same bad argument in other cases (like video games and violence, or something). It's not the drawing or the comics or whatever that are hurting children -- it's the child rapists. Going after the comics rather than the child rapists doesn't protect anyone. Unless you seriously think there are child molesters who give up on raping kids because they can't find enough lolicon to groom them with, I don't see the point of using a fundamentally bad argument to go on crusade here.

And don't try to insinuate that I'm somehow invested in child porn or something, because I don't even read this shit. It's just that your argument is bad, and it's bad in a way that has consequences.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Why is lolicon so important to you. Seriously.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

Reread the last paragraph of the comment you just replied to. Or possibly, read it for the first time.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

I did read it. I can't understand why you'd defend this if you have no investment in it. I'm done here, you clearly have enough problems as it is.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Someone here does, if that's your idea of an appropriate way to end a discussion.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

you got the last word, HERE'S YOUR TROPHY!!!

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

You have difficulty thinking about things that make you uncomfortable, don't you?

Re: OP

[luxshine]

Ok, I'll bite and try to explain this.

Yes, there's a minority of lolicon fans who are not pedophiles. Said minority looks like the majority because they're the most loud, and the ones you'll likely see on internet forums. However, the whole product is created for a majority of readers who enjoy sexualizing children. Not 'fictional' children. CHILDREN in general.

What lolicon does, besides being used to groom victims, is to normalize the idea that children are sexual beings and will want relationships with grownups. Just a couple of weeks ago, I had to read the heartwrenching story of a japanese girl who explained that in Japan child molestation is practically down to an art, which explains why they produce so much borderline legal pornographic material that is completely aimed to pedophiles. That you, and the OP, and some other hundreds of lolicon fans would never touch a child in an inappropriate manner doesn't change the fact that this crap and the whole industry behind it allows for the idea that children, real children, can consent to sex.
Yes, the drawings don't hurt the children. But the reason why the drawings exist? It's because there's a huge public that is willing to buy the fantasy that children are sexual objects in order to justify their acts.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

You're going to need to start throwing out citations you going to make claims like these.

Re: OP

[luxshine]

I'm not willing to put here the conversation with the Japanese girl as a) it was in spanish, and b) she got told by a lot of idiots that she deserved to be raped for being a prude. BUT regarding the incredibly lax situation of pedophilia and ephebophilia in Japan, here:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2054271,00.html

http://www.japantoday.com/category/kuchikomi/view/why-some-mothers-sell-their-children-for-dirty-deals

Now, regarding the fact that it's made for pedophiles, seriously? What other kind of people would like to see children in explicit sexual situations designated to arouse the viewer?

+1

[(Anonymous)]

Gotta love how people completely ignore all the sexualizing of real children that goes on right here at home. Just the other day I saw a girl who couldn't have been older than 12 wearing booty shorts, a midriff top, sandals with heels, and makeup.

She looked like a miniature hooker and she wasn't even old enough to have developed breasts yet. Sorry, but that's way grosser than any loli manga. Loli manga isn't real kids.

nayrt

[(Anonymous)]

What other kind of people would like to see children in explicit sexual situations designated to arouse the viewer?

speaking from the perspective of western fandom, i don't know about lolicon so much, but i've seen a lot of people who like shotacon often identifying with the object of sexual desire rather than just getting off to objectifying little kids

in a lot of cases it seems almost like a kind of... ageplay fantasy, where it taps into the feelings they had back when they were first discovering and exploring their sexuality and that sort of thing, but maintain a clear separation from anything involving real kids and are just as squicked as anyone else when it comes to seeing them objectified

*shrug*

i'm not saying shotacon and lolicon are good things or that they aren't harmful, but i do think there are quite a few factors that can tie into the enjoyment of that kind of material that don't necessarily mark someone as a child molestor

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

Although it's true that lolicon can and is used to harm children, it's more of a tool used by people who already have such depravity instead of the actual cause.

Equating lolicon and child porn does more harm that good, since it takes away attention of far more problematic stuff like child porn and child prostitution.

And please don't think that I'm defending lolicon. I hate it and understand why I can be harmful, but it's naive to insist than fictions equals reality and should be deal with it in the same way.
If anything, that kind of arguments also do more harm than anything else, since changing "lolicon" with "violent movies" or something else shows why equating fiction and reality is not only a bad argument, but also a good way to not being taken seriously.

Re: OP

[visp]

Should it be censored? Maybe, maybe not. Am I going to call you a fucking pervert if you like child porn, even if it's drawn and fictional? Yes. If you enjoy the sexualization of children, you're a creepy fucker.

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

+1

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

da

Mind, this is just an hypothesis, and until there's a good scientific study about this will never know for sure, but there is also the possibility that consuming lolicon media subconsciously normalizes the idea of sexualizing children and also might make pedophiles lapse into actual abuse by, again, subconsciously reassuring them that their desires are a-okay.

Otherwise, yeah, child rapists bad, fiction okay, just by goodness don't show it to children/young teens/impressionable people/your parents/etc.

/I don't like lolicon disclaimer D:

Re: OP

[(Anonymous)]

da

On the other hand, if you want to talk about 'normalizing', that opens up a whole universe of 'bad shit that's okay in fiction' to similar scrutiny. No more violence in movies and video games, for a start, don't you know that's why we're raising more violent kids these days?

(Echo disclaimer.)