fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2356 ]

[ SECRET POST #2356 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2356 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

__________________________________________________

02.

__________________________________________________

03.

__________________________________________________

04.

__________________________________________________

05.

__________________________________________________

06.

__________________________________________________

07.

__________________________________________________

08.

__________________________________________________

09.

__________________________________________________

10.

__________________________________________________

11.

__________________________________________________

12.

__________________________________________________

13.

__________________________________________________

14.

__________________________________________________

15.

__________________________________________________

16.

__________________________________________________

17.

__________________________________________________

18.

__________________________________________________

19.

__________________________________________________

20.

__________________________________________________

21.

__________________________________________________

22.

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 06 pages, 134 secrets from Secret Submission Post #336.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 1 2 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 1 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Discussing it with like minds is fine, preaching at other people who are just trying to enjoy their fandom is being a dick.

Yes, preaching is being a dick. Starting discussions in general fandom communities is not. Those are not necessarily the same thing.

They are if you are down talking something. Talk about how you enjoyed it in the main forums, and go to a "problematic" specific forum if you want to down talk it. Otherwise you are making people who wanted to be happy and enjoy it miserable. Making people miserable because you want to share your issue is being a dick.

Unless the community is called something like "fandom_squee" or the rules specify only positive discussions, it is a general community for discussing both positive and negative parts of a fandom. If people only want to talk about positive things, they are the ones who need to make a community specifically for that. A general fandom community is not restricted to only positive discussions unless it says so.

Talking about how you enjoyed it is the default. If there is negative commenting then it is what needs labelled separately. Unless it is "Fandom-comm-name negative views allowed" then keep them out and don't bully people and preach at them for daring to like something and not see your major malfunction.

Is it so hard to be polite and not do that?

No, actually, the default is talking about that specific fandom, period. If it is a general fandom com, the default is discussing that fandom. Talking about other fandoms is off topic, but discussing things you don't like about that fandom is not.

And why do you keep bringing up bullying and preaching? Those aren't okay, but not all negative discussions are bullying or preaching.

They kinda are. Fan groups don't change anything. The only people listening to them are other fans, most of whom want to enjoy the show. If you don't like something in the show/book/movie/stage series then complain directly to the showrunner/publisher/distributor/whatever. Complaining in the fan group is about how you personally want them to start not enjoying it instead of enjoying it and that is both bullying and preaching, and displaying a massive sense of entitlement. Because it isn't about fixing something in the originator work, it is about making other people not like the work.

People starting discussions saying "I think_____ is problematic" are not saying that every fan has to personally agree or not enjoy that part of fandom. The people that are saying that are a problem. Sometimes people actually want to discuss things with other fans (either who agree or disagree with them). They actually want to talk about it with other fans. Because they are fans too, they just happen to not like a particular aspect. Complaining to showrunners/etc. is not the same thing.

Well see that is the thing. They do demand every fan also see it as problematic. The sense of entitlement from the SJWs that anything they see as being problematic (whatever the fuck that means) must be condemned by all or they will attack, belittle, and abuse dissenters is bullying and it needs to stop. That is why keeping it off the main fangroups is the right thing to do. It stops the bullying by the SJWs and their monomaniacal rantings.

And I agree there are some people that do think that everyone should agree with them and condemn everything they condemn. But that isn't everyone wanting to discuss social justice issues in fandom.

DA

It's every one of them that I've ever been unfortunate enough to come across, though.

It probably isn't. People (in general, so this isn't a direct attack against you) are really, really, really prone to confirmation bias - even unconciously.

So, basically, you read a bunch of posts. Some mention social justice in a casual way and you don't really notice. Other mention social justice in a way that bugs the hell out of you and you REALLY notice.

Later when you're thinking about people who talk about social justice you obviously think about the posts that you noticed more - the ones that bothered you, not the ones you're indifferent too.

This leads you to, incorrectly but truly, believe that a greater portion of social justice posts are terrible than what's actually true.

I've had the opposite experience. The people who complain about problematic aspects of characters or episodes in my fandoms are usually very civil with those who disagree with them, while those who can't accept criticism of their show are very argumentative, often being rude and hostile, much like the anon complaining in this thread.

People can have completely different experiences in fandom, both are valid. It's when you start to bully and exclude people that you become a dick.

No, they not-even-kinda aren't. And talking about negatives doesn't *make* people do anything. Unless you are totally incapable of dealing with someone having a different view from you, which...wel, yes.

Yes, they oh-so kinda are. Your reasoning is "I'm miserable, I want to write my misery so a happy person will be miserable now to share it with me". That's sad (in all senses of the word).

And you're assuming that everyone who wants to discuss social justice issues is miserable. Some of us actually enjoy those sorts of discussions. Some of us are happy about our fandoms and wish our fandoms could be better and enjoy discussing both the things we like and things we don't. For some of us, having discussions about various issues in fandoms makes us happy.

wish our fandoms could be better

And this is the heart of the complainers, nit-pickers, and general SJW busy-bodies. They want to be the ones that shape the fandom. That is why it is bullying. They take their version of "better" and make it miserable for anyone who will not subscribe to it.

What the fuck?

How the hell did you take a statement that things could be better (and things can always be better because nothing is perfect) to mean that someone things that everyone should be miserable to not subscribe to it.

Like what the hell?

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-06-16 00:18 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-06-16 00:36 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-06-16 14:09 (UTC) - Expand

So, what are your feelings about negative commenting that's unrelated to any sort of social issues- for example, what if someone thinks such-and-such an episode was lousy and wants to talk about why they found it disappointing? Should they be prevented from voicing their opinion in whatever venues their fandom uses for discussing their latest episodes?

No, talking about only positive things is NOT the default - you just WANT it to be the default.

Not the same thing.

A general comm is for *general* comments - that means it only has to be about the fandom and can be positive or negative.

Note "general" does not mean "complaining" or "campaigning" those would have separate fora and sub forum for the specific issues.

The argument you're making here sounds a lot like the one made by certain people who don't like seeing incest or underage pairings in a general fic comm. According to them, if you don't want to experience the fandom the "normal" way, then it's up to you to create a separate forum in which you can indulge your abnormality--even if the general comm's rules don't say anything about forbidding certain pairings--because posting incest or underage fic to the general comm makes "normal" fans miserable. Which, hey, might be another thing you believe! But, if so, you'd be wrong about that, just as you're wrong about what's acceptable to post on a general (i.e. not squee-only) discussion comm.

...

Which side of this argument are you supporting? You seem to be equating social justice discussion with incest/underage pairings.

A lot of the arguments used are the same. Just going a different way.

AYRT

I'm equating more discussion with more discussion (since pretty much all stories make an argument, albeit more subtly than your average essay). Or, conversely, I'm equating people who think their way of doing fandom is the One True Way and everyone else should GTFO of their fannish communities with people who ditto.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only