fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2390 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2390 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Karl Urban]

__________________________________________________

02.

[Legend of Zelda]

__________________________________________________

03.

[Pride and Prejudice]

__________________________________________________

04.

[Shingeki no Kyojin]

__________________________________________________

05.

[Les dossiers du Bell]

__________________________________________________

[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

06. [SPOILERS for 'Injustice: Gods Among Us'; 'Man of Steel']

__________________________________________________

07. [SPOILERS for Welcome to Night Vale]

__________________________________________________

08. [SPOILERS for Young Justice]

__________________________________________________

09. [SPOILERS for Merlin]

__________________________________________________

10. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

__________________________________________________

11. [SPOILERS for Umineko no Naku Koro ni]

__________________________________________________

[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

12. [WARNING for incest]

[Felica & Ryon Day, "Co-Optitude"]

__________________________________________________

13. [WARNING for incest]

__________________________________________________

14. [WARNING for suicide]

__________________________________________________

15. [WARNING for abuse]

__________________________________________________

Notes:

Sorry for late again, work's a bit busy this week.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #341.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

All right, F!S.

I have a friend who's got a book coming out in the fall. Some reviews have already been posted by folks who beta'd the book's various drafts. One of these individuals wrote a review in which, after noting that she beta'd the first draft, she criticizes the book for having spelling and grammar errors.

I find this to be in exceptionally poor taste, particularly as someone who has done beta work. I would never tell people, "oh, this story is good, but when I beta'd it, it contained a bunch of errors." First drafts always contain errors; that's why people ask for betas. That's why books go through editors before being published.

My friend doesn't seem to have a problem with it, so it's all good on that front. But I'm just wondering what other people think. When discussing a particular story, is it cool for a beta to mention the parts that needed fixing prior to its posting/publication? Or should they keep mum?

Also, should betas review/discuss a story at all before its posting/publication? And does the answer differ depending upon whether it's fanfic or something that's going to wind up on bookshelves?

That seems weird to me, but I have no idea how the industry works so I don't know.

ayrt

If I may ask...which bit seems weird? Or does it all seem weird?

not the fact that there are pre-release reviews cause like below anon said those are for promotion, but it seems weird that a beta would comment on the grammatical issues since a - how does that help promote the book and b - weren't they reading EARLY DRAFTS and supposedly helping get rid of those errors?

ayrt

Ah!

Yeah, I find it weird too. But I have a tendency to think that I'm crazy (or, at least, out of touch with mainline opinions), so I decided to make a post and see what others think.

Pre-release reviews are essential for promoting new commercial works. It's a little strange to think of someone doing that for fanfic, but I don't see anything wrong with it. But it's in very bad taste to include errors from drafts, even for fanfic. Anyone writing a review should be writing about the finished work.

ayrt

Pre-release reviews are essential for promoting new commercial works.

That is true, but such reviews are typically written/disseminated by professional reviewers rather than by beta readers or editors.

I guess my question is really whether or not it's appropriate for an author's friends or the members of an author's writing group to post advance reviews. Then again, advanced copies of books typically get sent to bookstores, and there's no stopping the employees of said bookstores from hopping online and writing reviews, so... I may have answered my own question, ha!

Why the fuck did that person post a review with a critique of the first draft for having errors like spelling? gdi that really rustles my jimmies just for that because it's a first draft it's not going to be perfect.

I've never seen people talk about fics they've beta'd about any problems in the story out in the open. As for review, I feel like it'd be ok for them to review it before its posting but not to talk about the editing it had.

ayrt

Yeah, that's basically how I feel. Like, what do you expect from a first draft? And why do you think editors exist?

Thanks for your input!

I think in formal reviews, betas should stick to talking about the finished product. It's just tacky to consider a review of the unfinished product to be worth anything at all. People are going to be reading the finished product and are going to want reviews about that. Talking about it elsewhere may or may not be in poor taste, depending, but it's more acceptable than bringing it up in something that should stick to the finished product.

As for the other question, it's really up to the author. If they don't want their betas to talk about it before it's made public, then the betas should respect that and not talk about it. It doesn't matter if it's fanfic or a published work - the author should always have the final say on whether or not information about the work can be made public before the work itself.

ayrt

That's a very good point re: pre-release reviews. The author's preferences should be paramount.

On that same point, however, I wonder whether I'm making a mountain out of a molehill in this case, as this particular author's preference doesn't seem to preclude a reviewer mentioning draft errors.

Regardless of the particular situation, it's still a valid question/concern. I feel that tact and common courtesy are dying out, so anything that reminds people how not to behave like complete asses is a plus in my book.

WTF?

If this is a book going in for publication (epublished or the usual route), that IS in exceptionally poor taste!

I'm surprised your friend isn't offended, because I would be. It seems entirely redundant, as well, to "review" a book and saying it has grammatical errors, when those flaws will be absent from the finished product.

Also, not sure what the beta reader was trying to accomplish there.
How is that going to help sell the book?

It's just baffling.

Why would I even want a review of the first draft?

I don't know about you but if I compared my first to my last draft of any of my writings you wouldn't have known they were even the same story. So as a... reader? consumer? why would I want to know about a story or product that isn't what I'm going to be getting?

I honestly don't know if it's in good tastes or not but I think it would probably upset me if this happened to one of my published works. But your friend isn't upset so I don't know what to do about this situation.

Also, considering this is fanfiction... what? They do this for fanfiction?

Edited 2013-07-20 01:00 (UTC)

ayrt

In the case of my friend, it's not fanfiction. I included fanfiction in the interest of possible discussion, heh.

Ah, then definitely, yes. I find it insulting not only to the writer but the reader. To the writer because it is a disingenuous review of their material and the reader because it's not for the book it claims to be a review of. So really, it's like a lie.

But, again, since your friend doesn't care... ?????????????

Wow. So, I've had books e-published, and I'm pretty active in writing communities and reading industry related stuff. That is appalling, and I would never, ever use that beta again, if she posted pre-release reviews of a draft that I had sent her because it was in progress and needed correction. Actually, it is pretty common for ARCs (advance reader copies) to be sent out by publishers for review, with the note that it is not a final copy and that typos and grammar issues should be ignored. (ARCs are often printed before the copyedit stage, after the major plot/story edits, but before the (usually) multiple line edits are done.)

Honestly, that is the sort of thing that in some communities would get that person's name circulating around privately, because pre-release reviews can be pretty important. Building "buzz" around a book is important, and having a reviewer essentially say that the book is poorly edited can impact sales, especially if the book has a niche audience or a mainly online audience (in the cases of digital first publishing, where the reader communities are pretty small and tight-knit).

[ SECRET POST #2390 ]

...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?

Re: ...beta etiquette?