fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2390 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2390 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

01.

[Karl Urban]

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02.

[Legend of Zelda]

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03.

[Pride and Prejudice]

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04.

[Shingeki no Kyojin]

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05.

[Les dossiers du Bell]

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[ ----- SPOILERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

06. [SPOILERS for 'Injustice: Gods Among Us'; 'Man of Steel']

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07. [SPOILERS for Welcome to Night Vale]

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08. [SPOILERS for Young Justice]

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09. [SPOILERS for Merlin]

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10. [SPOILERS for Supernatural]

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11. [SPOILERS for Umineko no Naku Koro ni]

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[ ----- TRIGGERY SECRETS AHEAD ----- ]

12. [WARNING for incest]

[Felica & Ryon Day, "Co-Optitude"]

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13. [WARNING for incest]

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14. [WARNING for suicide]

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15. [WARNING for abuse]

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Notes:

Sorry for late again, work's a bit busy this week.

Secrets Left to Post: 00 pages, 000 secrets from Secret Submission Post #341.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm at the part where it says the Catholics are on Stephen's side instead of Maud's...but in Ellis Peters' Brother Cadfael books, the Catholics are backing Maud.

My question is this, is it Follett or was it Peters, who played fast and loose with history? I tried Wikipedia, but I am--let's just say non-European shall we--and it made my head spin trying to sort it all out.

Also, I prefer Peters' writing to Follett's, but Follet is more emotionally engaging, for w/e reason.

The Catholics? But... they were all Catholic? This was waaaay pre-Protestants, too late for paganism, and totally the wrong place for Eastern Orthodox.

If you mean who the Church officially supported, I've never studied that particular aspect of that particular conflict, but I would guess they either stayed neutral or backed whoever was winning at the time.

OP here

Yes, I know this was pre-"Protestant" era, but in Real Live History(tm) there were more than just Catholics around. (There were all these people in France, see...okay, yanno what, let's not go there.)

I am more interested in whether Peters or Follett fudged on the fine details...though I do recall (it's been a long long time since I've read the Cadfael books) Peters' monks referencing the fact that some priests supported Stephen, and others supported Maud, now that I think of it. Follett makes it pretty clear that either the church in his narrative, or the church in history, supported Stephen as a unified whole, though.

Finding actual info on this actual bit of history is actually (sorry) harder to find than I thought it would be. (So much for a simple Wiki walk.)

DA

France =/= England. What was going on there isn't the same thing. Also, you *might* want to consider the fact that Europe was pretty hostile as far as being non-catholic goes at the time, and most people who were in power and had influence were going to be Catholic...and frankly? The majority of the population *was* Catholic. Thus separating as 'Who the Catholics backed' is a bit redundant since there were going to be Catholics on both sides.

Also, getting pissy because people are pointing out that, yanno, the group you're trying to lump in on one side of the issue *wasn't* all on one side? Kinda childish.

OP

Hm. I was more interested in knowing which of the two authors I cited in my OP was less historically accurate. The first response was a bit "...but they were all Catholics..." which I went with, and noted it had nothing to do with the books/writers in question (maybe I did not note that carefully enough, if so, I apologize).

Not sure if you're trolling in the deep by calling me childish, though; and Follet refers to the fact throughout the first part of the book that England is dealing with Norman (i.e., French) usurpers at the time.

TL;DR: Yes, OK, they were all Catholics (in the books at least), what is your issue with my calling them Catholics? Because that's, yanno, what they were.......??

DA nitpick
(regarding the French: Normandy was still pretty much a Catholic area. The "heretics" like the Cathars were located in the South of France.)

(carry on, sorry for the bother!)

Wikipedia tells me Stephen's brother was the bishop of Winchester, who "delivered the support of the church". So Follett is right, at least part of the religious establishment in England supported Stephen.

...oh, boy, later on Stephen's brother switched sides when his was losing! I forgot about that! Oh, medieval family relations!

Yeah, anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchy

OP

Thanks, that's what I was looking for, and couldn't find!

Which side "the Church" supported makes sense.

Well, technically, the Catholic Church is a hierarchy but not necessarily a coherent whole. It had a huge amount of power and some of it derived from the fact that its higher-ups were the sons of powerful noble families who had a direct influence on kings, dukes...etc. Once put in a position of power within the Church, they didn't stop being part of their families and many of them tried to preserve their families' interests.

Hence: some in the Catholic Church may have supported Maud, and others Stephen. The thing is that the Church is rather fickle: it supported whoever best suited its interests and could work with the Pope to strengthen the influence of the Church.

Pillar's of the Earth is actually pretty historically accurate, though there are a few minor things in it that aren't [minor on the level of 'sugar is mentioned, but wasn't in Europe yet'].

Peter's writing is a lot less accurate. It doesn't go wildly out of period, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't focus so much on historical accuracy and doesn't have an issue changing things a bit to suit the story.

At least, that's what I've heard/read.

Also, like the anon above mentioned - everyone involved would have been Catholic, and chances are the church stayed out of it more than anything else.

OP here

Hmm, I was never aware there were issues with Peters' writing, so perhaps she was the one who fudged the historical details? Thanks for the info, nonny!

Yeah, what I understand is that she fudges a lot of details, and actually have heard that some stuff is actually completely fictionalized/'inspired by' [which almost always translates to 'Not Accurate']. So I'd be skeptical of events that happen in her novels, and at least do a little looking up of stuff before taking what happens in them as what actually happened.

Heh, no, I never do that...hence my trawling through Wikipedia, trying to find something approximating history, ha ha. (Another nonny upthread found it for me http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Anarchy ) Once again, F!S comes through!

[ SECRET POST #2390 ]

So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.

Re: So I am reading Pillars of the Earth, and I have a question.