fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #2415 ]

⌈ Secret Post #2415 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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[Arrested Development]

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[Ray Donovan]

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[30 Rock]

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[Lady Gaga]

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[Gerard Way of My Chemical Romance]

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[ATLA]

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[Mabinogi]

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[The Hobbit]

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[Teen Wolf]

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[Top left: Sora and Riku from Kingdom Hearts
Top right: Sam and Dean from Supernatural
Bottom left: Akanishi Jin and Yamashita Tomohisa
Bottom right: Legolas and Aragorn from Lord of the Rings]

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 049secrets from Secret Submission Post #345.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

This is not necassarily what I would answer, but I imagine that someone will answer that while Madonna is staying within the discourse of the Western Judeo-Christian culture, Gaga is appropriating a religious culture that she has nothing to do with.

Madonna spent the whole of the late 90s appropriating Eastern religious imagery like fucking whoa though. It was practically her schtick for years.

This

Yeah, but how does that relate to the picture in question, the one the OP's comparing to Gaga's, that's about Christianity, right?

Although I have no idea what happens in the actual video, so maybe I'm not the person to judge what's relevant and what's not.

Edited 2013-08-13 23:26 (UTC)

It's about the Madonna 'character' witnessing a murder and seeing the wrong guy go to jail for it, then she goes into a church and prays at the feet of a black Jesus statue, who comes to life and she dances around with gospel singer-angels and she kisses his feet and she's in a low-cut dress and then she wakes up and goes and tells the cops 'hey, wrong guy!' and the wrong guy is the guy who was Jesus.

So.

IIRC it was the burning crosses that led to it being pulled as the video for the Coca-Cola campaign and caused all the uproar.

These days, it would probably be the fans/the Internet/the SJWs that would be in an uproar over the burning crosses in the Like a Prayer video....

/I saw the Coke commercial before it got pulled -- I also saw the video for "Like a Prayer" before there was MuchMusic (Canadian MTV).

Oh, that's right, I didn't even remember the whole cross/commercial deal. I liked the vid because Madonna's damn hot and so was 'Jesus', so - yay!

Otherwise...people got riled up about Madonna every other week, it seemed, back then.

it was a Pepsi commercial, not Coke.

:P Well at least my memory is not completely gone yet. :P You are correct, anon, it was Pepsi. I should know this. I DRINK PEPSI. Aaaauuuuggggh.

And Judaism. I was pretty offended by that at the time and I'm not even religious. It was just obnoxious.

This. Definitely. And isn't eastern imagery still being appropriated in Hollywood, even if Madonna's gotten off that horse?

Did anyone think to talk to someone who wears a burqa

No, first rule of SJWing: never take into account what an actual living person thinks and keep on your anonymous internet slacktavism.

Yeah, because Lady Gaga speaking for people in burqa/niqab is somehow not "SJW" and speaking for others. Ya never got to miss a dig at anyone who might have a legit complaint because of your rush to sneer at "SJWs".

lol she's not speaking for women who wear burqa. She uses the burqa as allegory, and yeah it's tacky, but it's not actually about burqa/Islam at all.

yes, and they took offense.

Yeah, but - don't people say repeatedly that a burqa isn't religious, it's tribal/cultural?

It's both? Religious practices are cultural in most places, and especially given how much shit Islamic people & countries are getting from the West, it's rather poor taste and inflammatory. Look at what's going down in places like France re burkas & niqabs.

Is it? I've read on various sites 'nowhere in the Quran does it say women must wear a burqa' so.... I just dunno.

Do people who *do* wear burqas by choice care?

Whatever to the Quran, it's religious now, as well as cultural. As with all forms of modesty clothing and head covering. I don't think it's wise as an outsider to try to draw a distinction.

When I visited the Blue Mosque in Istanbul, we had to cover our heads if we looked like we had cunts. I dont think much of this objectively, but. Once inside some white women took them off and I think that's just disrespectful and bad manners.

...?

A lot of objections to the burqa are because people say its *not* in the Quran, so...it's not 'religious now' to some people.

I'm...on the fence about it being disrespectful. Having respect for individuals, yes, but for institutions that oppress women across the board? Not really.

(no subject)

(Anonymous) - 2013-08-14 05:32 (UTC) - Expand

(Anonymous) - 2013-08-14 07:50 (UTC) - Expand

The Quran talks about dressing modestly, so while it doesn't say women should wear the burqua, or the niqab, or the hijab, those particular forms of dress are cultural expressions of the religious commandment.

But I don't see what difference the cultural/ religious distinction makes to the question "Is this offensive?" Calling your football team the Washington Redskins doesn't violate anyone's religious belief, but it still pisses people off.

It doesn't make a difference per se, but i've read so many 'not religious!' arguments that i wanted to be clear on that point in my head, because not having read the Quran myself, I have no idea.

tree_and_leaf - 2013-08-14 17:11 (UTC) - Expand

I mean, that is basically what I'm saying. In the context of that *specific* Madonna video, she was using part of her own religion/culture. Heavy Christian/Catholic imagery when you grew up Christian or in a culture that is predominantly Christian might have varying effects on other people's tastes or opinion of you (I like the video, but I won't argue that it is tastefully done or argue with someone on the merits of it as art vs. provocation for provocation's sake), but you aren't really appropriating someone else's life.

But Lady Gaga sporting a burqa when she is not Muslim or Central Asian just perpetuates the appropriation of non-Western cultures, or, depending on what kind of "commentary" she's making, even the very gross White/Western Savior complex that treats Muslim women as if they need our help to become "liberated" or whatevs.

or maybe she's referencing the discourse connected to burqas? cause that's how art works, usually. show burqa, set off stream of ideas in audiences head. including cultural background, history, criticism (and criticism of criticism as being White Man's Burden-influenced etc.), previous depictions of the symbol. Just like Madonna did with burning crosses.