fandomsecrets | [ SECRET POST #276 ]

[ SECRET POST #276 ]

⌈ Secret Post #276 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

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Secrets Left to Post: 07 pages, 158 secrets from Secret Submission Post #040.
Secrets Not Posted: 0 broken links, 0 not!secrets, 0 not!fandom, [ 1 ] too big.
Next Secret Post: Tomorrow, Tuesday, October 9th, 2007.
Current Secret Submission Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

fear_borne! It's awesome and you should do it. D: Are you apping Ishida, or someone else? (Orihime says hi!)

Yeah. I think FFVII is somewhat overrated for the mass-crush that half the internets has for it, but I enjoy the characters to this day, and Aerith is one of the ones who stood the test of time so well that I still enjoy writing/plotting about her. (Along with Zack and the Turks. ♥) On the other hand, the rest of the internet has a mass crush on FFVIII, and I think that is-- way overrated, and I don't even understand why people like it half the time. There was an entire subplot that was essentially meaningless: you could cut out the most interesting part of the game for me (Ellone sending Squall and his group back into Laguna's past) and it literally wouldn't impact the plot.

As for Aerith, I may have a thing for allowing three dimensions to characters everyone else thinks are just "the nice ones", like Hinamori-Orihime-Aerith-etc. (And Aerith DOES own people. One of my favorite things about Kingdom Hearts was seeing this in action as she totally tops Squall-Leon-whoever, thus instantly making them a way more likable pairing than Squall/Rinoa in my book.)

...ahaha, I didn't even think of it, Rinoa has no excuse. :( Fail.

Of course, it's fun talking with people. :3 We could friend? (Especially if you're going to hang out at FB, my current stalking grounds.)

I've been meaning to do it for a long time! For a while a lot of the characters were taken, and I wasn't sure I'd be comfortable with the ones open, then I happened to be avoiding a paper due like, now, and happened to see that it was looking, and oh hay, Ishida, who I've played at least once before! ... So yes, Ishida. It's impossible for me to employ word economy, have you noticed? (Ishida deliberates. Be cool, or be flustered because omglkdsmfs SHE'S STILL NOT RESCUED WTF).

There's no doubt that FFVII is overrated, and I really, really, really wish Squienix would leave it alone and stop making sequels and crap. Crap. ... Though Crisis Core, despite the Gack, does have Aerith. So um. Yeah. Turks~ ♥. ... Yeah, I meet a lot of people who really love FFVIII, and while not as bad as I originally thought it (Mostly the product of me, um, being twelve and needing FFVII to be SUPERIOROMG), it's not ... as amazing as everyone thinks? But uh, nor are most of the Final Fantasies, really. It's really chunky, FFVIII, it just doesn't flow well. VII has similar problems but VIII really takes the cake. Plus, you know, random-ass final villain.

ILU. ILU forever! Hinamori, Orihime ♥. You like Orihime, so that makes you superior to like, 50% of Bleach fandom. I'm normally pretty tolerant of character hate, but I have to avoid it hard in B-fandom because otherwise I'm seized with an inexplicable desire to tear some throats open. (AHA YES. Rinoa owns Squall in her own way, but it's generally... um, retarded. He's awkward and she's childish and pushes until she gets her way, while Aerith's kind of sneaky about it, while also being upfront, if that works at all).

Fail, Rinoa. Because were you sheltered by General Daddy? But then what's with this rebellion force? Teenage rebellion to the EXTREME, huh???

Lots of fun! Friending = A++. ..... Excuse uh, the character journal. I'd sign out but. I should have left thirty minutes ago to get to classsssss, and I need to do a reply! Oooops.

FFVIII is kind of like the story told to you by a schizophrenic but extremely creative 10-year-old. You know, "Awww, someday you're going to come up with some really interesting ideas! Where does he come up with this stuff, haha." But... he'll look back on it someday and be ashamed.

(Orihime says that she's working on it. :D She's rescuing herself! By accident! It's very Orihime.)

All the girl-hate in Bleach fandom drives me crazy, especially the Orihime-hate. Even people who aren't foaming at the mouth about Ichigo/Rukia or slash-only-plz have called her a "Mary Sue" because... because she has a crush on a guy?! WHAT A RIDICULOUS SUE. I'm like sdljhfksjgh fine, have your opinions, I'm just going to be over here in my goddamn corner. XD

I like the Aerith/Leon because (extremely vague because I don't remember the scene) she's like, "I'm going to do this," and then he's like, "It's too dangerous. You should do that instead," and then she just goes *smilesmile* and he eventually goes, "...uh, sorry. Okay." <-PWNT

Friending ho! Enjoy class~

... Best description ever? I don't have much of a hate-on for it, and I tend to like playing it, but sometimes I really wonder about story-telling decisions made in that game. They portray maybe the irregularities of teenage emotions and a relationship pretty well, but then, should I believe it's an all-encompassing true love forever? ... Which is ony of my big problems with a lot of things, anyway. Why must this love at sixteen be forever and life-changing and omg, brain stab.

(... Seriously? ♥ ♥ &hearts That is perfect.)

Yeah, Orihime gets really severe hate for being a girl, and worst of all, a NORMAL GIRL who has DOUBTS and FEARS and RESERVATIONS and maybe doesn't like herself that much, or know immediately how to handle the crazy shit happening around her! Because obviously everyone would be totally cool with that stuff. Yeah. Not like Ichigo himself didn't wonder if he was a monster and wasn't a little freaked out by himself. ldmsalkdmsaf. I'll sit in that corner with you, and I'll bring COOKIES. Haters missing out on COOKIES.

HAHAHA YES. Aerith/Leon in KH for the win. It's like in the game, "Oh no! Whatever shall I do! ... Isn't that what you want me to say?"

Thanks! Haha, so late already~

(I can't promise Ulquiorra won't scoop her up and bring her back twenty minutes later, but the moment she realizes what happened she's going to do her damnedest to avoid that. D: )

I don't understand how people don't love her. She made Ishida get dressed behind a curtain like he was the teenage girl when he totally freaked out over her changing in front of him. Her hero swept her up like a ~~caveman~~ knight in shining armor and her reaction was "sdkjfhskdjfh what if he thinks I'm heavy ;_; " -- she's insecure, and a little shy, and that's real.

I'm really annoyed people hate her for that moment in particular, where mask!Ichigo was facing her, because the same people who were hating her for broad statements of universal love of him also hated her for not immediately going, "Oh, terrifying!Hollow!Ichigo, that mask doesn't have bad memories for me at all! Have fun honey!" (Dude, KT even included a tiny panel flashback of her brother attacking her in there, IIRC.) Of course she was afraid of him; and Ichigo didn't blame her for it, even if it hurt him a little. Who wouldn't be afraid? It's not like she knew anything about this. I thought it was brave of her to manage to see that whatever he looked like, Ichigo was still himself, still protecting her even at his own expense, and to get over that impulsive fear.

--sorry, that's one of my grievances I don't get to air enough. >E

Cookies are good. ♥ As are friends.

(... Ishida is willing to give her a fair number of points for effort, especially as she will have nonetheless gotten farther than all of her so-called nakama, faaaail, faaaail.)

She owned Ishida so hard. Not that that is necessarily hard to do, if you're a lady. Or Chad. Chad and Orihime, the indomitable combo? But haha, I love that part -- cold, jerky Ishida immediately becomes this flustered, fumbling dork. She thought she was with Tatsuki, snrrrrk, ~~and immediately Ishihime people should be thinking twice. Which is cool. Cos Ishida ships Ichihime, too.~~ ;____; I KNOW. Gosh, I just, the love I have for Orihime could sink ships. She's optimistic but also secretly doubts herself so much, she's ordinary but lovely and her imagination is lkfmdlfds yes. Just. ORIHIME IS SO MUCH YES. ... While I never really cared one way or another for Bleach Shipping while reading, the hate of IchiRuki fans pushed me hard into IchiHime territory. (Helps that I really really like Renji-Rukia whenever I think about it.)

Yeah, um. Ummmm. They clearly don't want her to be human. But Rukia is amazing and perfect! Because it isn't, you know, possibly, a BAD thing to treat it like no bit deal, BECAUSE IT KIND OF IS. Even aside from it being Hollow like, Hollow was my brother, but -- it's not a good thing to be too comfortable with that side, to think it's okay and normal. Not to be biased or jerky or whatever to the "nice" Hollows like Nel and stuff, but they seem to be a raaaare breed and mostly the view we're given is of something bloodthirsty and monstruous and needing to be controlled, so, while it hurt him a little, it's not a bad thing for him to see people be a little alarmed -- but then also for that alarmed person to see that he's still him, normal, Ichigo is Ichigo, he can be himself and control it and use it and blah blah. Er, yes, -- agreed, brave.

No, totally cool, it's totally a grievance of mine, too. :/

♥

Chad is secretly a huge dork (just like Ishida) so I love them. X3 Ishida has that huge chivalrous streak that keeps tripping him up when it's women, though. That's one of my favorite moments -- Orihime is like, lalala stripping~ and responds to Ishida's flailing by going, "Oh, whoops, I forgot you were a boy. :D " Poor Ishida, he's not even on the radar. Orihime only registers that he's male at all when it involves other people. (He made this cute dress for Rukia-- he must like her omg.)

I'm a guilty, guilty shipper, myself, but I'm not hardcore about my ships being the "right" ones, which is the problem I have with some of the louder Ichigo/Rukia fans. XD Like, I favor Ichigo/Orihime, but I also like Ishida/Orihime (especially one-sided because I'm mean; it's like Kira/Hinamori!) and Rukia/Orihime (mwahaha) etc. It doesn't make the other pairings I like "wrong" if I like Ichigo/Orihime~ Of course Ishida would also. He wants her to be happy~ :D *fail*

But you have a really good point there. Rukia treated it like it was no big deal, the Vizard are treating it like it's perfectly normal, and Ichigo thinks it is, a big deal, hates it. It's good for him to remember why he needs to stay in control -- and Orihime's fear is a powerful reminder. I know fandom is a little biased because of all the Grimmjow-Ulquiorra-Nnoitra-Szayel Aporro-etc fans running around, but they're not good people. Even among the rational, intelligent Hollows, it's still very rare to find one who isn't ruled by these primal animal urges to conquer, to be the best, to serve themselves, etc. Or else... we'd have more of them who didn't put their tails between their legs every time Aizen snapped his fingers.~~Of course, all the Hollows who did that are probably dead. Still!~~

♥ Hi.

I'm so big on dorks. My quiet little infatuation for Ishida began 1) because his song, according to KT, is "Idioteque" and omg Radiohead, 2) "Out of the Bleach cast" says KT "he's number one at trying to act cool. Ichigo's probably number two." 3) ... I like uptight characters. I like dorks. and I like glasses! WIN. YEAH, Ishida is so off the radar, even AFTER he gets to look manly and masculine and so-cool by saving her from that dude.

More importantly, I WANT CHAD TO GET HIS. I WANT HIM TO BE IMPORTANT AGAIN. HE DOESN'T. DLSMLA. NO FAIR, KT. HE NEVER PROPERLY WINS, EVER. Give me more Chad, plz. Also, Tatsuki getting her ability on, right now.

Oh, I ship like crazy, but I didn't do it immediately with Bleach. And I tend to ship everything in sight. I'm a multishipper so much it hurts my head. Rukia/Orihime --> IS SO THERE. I find that in Bleach, there is SO MUCH femslash subtext and like, zero male slash subtext in comparison. Except maybe for Yumichika and Ikkaku. Mostly, if it's well-written and well-developed, I love it.

... but I also like Ishida/Orihime, one-sided, oh man. Cos he obviously thinks she's hot. And she totally brings out the dork in him -- when he tries to be all, 'NO NEED TO THANK ME' she smiles at him and thanks him ANYWAY and he's like, dlksamlksafail. Doesn't need to be a crush, 'cos Ishida has this chivalry thing about women in general, and as Orihime's his nakama and he had no friends before them, well... 'Course, Orihime is Ichigo-sexual. and omg, that moment during the Ichigo-Byakuya fight, when Orihime won't back away, and Ishida just LOOKS at her and thinks, Kurosaki if you die I'll never forgive you? Yeah, that's him shipping Ichigo-Orihime because he wants her to be happy.

The people Ichigo have interacted with, up until a point, don't treat it like a big thing. And that is fine and admirable, because I'm not advocating that Ichigo should be treated like a monster. But not every person will react that way, and it isn't something to shrug aside -- which isn't what Rukia or the Vizard did by any means, but yeah. Arrancar are HOLLOWS, Hollows are instinct-driven creatures that need to eat souls to survive. While Dordonii was "chocolate" and had this odd nobility, this pride in battle, he calls himself unusual for Arrancar. Arrancar are the ENEMY, if, perhaps, more by unfortunate nature and circumstance than by deliberate choice to be evalll.

.... :D;; haha, sorry for babbling at you so much! NO ONE ELSE DOES IT WITH ME. Or, I've already talked their ears off to said point.

I actually didn't like Ishida for a while, because he was "too cool" and I hate characters who are too cool, but I do love characters who are "too cool" but also deflate easily, so secret-dork!Ishida won me over in the end.

I was JUST ranting yesterday about how totally not fair it is that Chad never gets to team up with people. D: In SS it was Ishida-Orihime and Chad off to the side, and in HM it's Ishida-Renji with Chad off to the side... We never get any good Chad bonding moments where Chad is kicking ass and building relationships. D: I want them!

That is totally my view of this fandom, man. XD!! There's lots of awesome het, and lots of fun femslashiness, and -- and next to no slashy guys. I count three slash pairings I really like (Aizen/Gin, Ikkaku/Yumichika, Kyouraku/Ukitake), but that's... all. Even my cracky pairings are generally het or femslash (like Byakuya/Yoruichi or Rukia/Hinamori etc).

Yes! On everything re: Ishida/Orihime. Your point wins. Even if it isn't romantic, Orihime is the pinnacle of female awesome in his world at the moment, and now that you point it out, that is sort of an Ishida shipping Ichigo/Orihime moment. XD On her behalf, because whatever Kurosaki, hmph. But his reactions to her are generally either adorably dorky or, on occasion, acting like a total dick. (Before I liked him, I bristled really hard when he was thinking about how she'd always be a liability in combat because she was like, nice. I was like, you jerk, you don't get to say that, you've hardly even seen her fight at this point and never seriously~ Of course, 100 chapters later everyone was telling her that same thing.) And I enjoy that, even though Orihime? Is really pretty Ichigo-sexual.

I LOVE BABBLING. I totally welcome babbling. I can only babble at

libekory and we've already babbled about everything. :D SO YAY.

Understandable! What's really hilarious about Ishida is how hard he tries when really, really, it's SO OBVIOUS that he isn't cool. It's kind of pathetic. I mean, look: he's number one in the class, he's the president of the handicradts club as a FRESHMAN, and he HAS. NO. FRIENDS. He's cold to everyone to a really ridiculous amount, to the extent that it's not cool, Ishida honey-- it's LAME. God he's so lame. What does he do with his free time? He lives alone. So, what. He sews. He trains. He does his school work. Maybe he practices looking cool and cool phrases in front of the mirror. And Ishida interacting with Ichigo is hilarious -- like when Ichigo invites Ishida out to lunch. and when, after SS, Ichigo goes out to fight a Hollow and Orihime and Chad come, and Ichigo's like, "Wait, where's Ishida?" ... lol.

NOT FAIR. I really want to see Chad team up with Ichigo, his BEST FRIEND. I appreciate the easy connections Ichigo makes with every male he's ever fought, but CHAD IS HIS BFF FOREVER. and uh, more of that plz, right now. The last Chad partnership we had? Was with KARIN. That was awesome. But that was like, volume four.

It's KT and his mad love for the ladies! Or at least the lady subtext. It's weird how there's so much that could be there, and yet I don't feel Ichigo/Ishida at all. Aizen/Gin, yes, Ikkaku/Yumichika and Kyouraku/Ukitake is the duh. Crack pairings ftw. ... Chizuru/Tatsuki! Rukia/Hinamori would be incredibly hot, and Hitsugaya and Renji would be just so totally lost.

Right. It doesn't necessarily have to be romantic -- but Orihime definitely means something to him, as a girl, as a girl who knew him before and was always kind, as a girl he cares about and wants to keep safe. Plus, while he has all these cool or frustrated/spaztic expressions with everyone else, he gives the WOOBIEST EXPRESSIONS to Orihime. Lol, icon use: one (http://userpic.livejournal.com/61274019/12821045), two (http://userpic.livejournal.com/61274030/12821045), three (http://userpic.livejournal.com/61462290/12821045), four (http://userpic.livejournal.com/64971250/12821045), five (http://userpic.livejournal.com/64971253/12821045). ... Ishida clearly thinks Orihime's the shit, even without all the blushing. Ishida has the unfortunate habit of being a total dick to lots of people -- that point annoyed me as well, though it was a legitimate point in the Bleach world. In the sense that ... he said it coldly, it came out badly, but at heart, it was out of concern for her? He sees battle in a pretty harsh, uncompromising way, and you shouldn't be sympathetic to one's enemy, like, logically. I don't agree with the sentiment, but it's simple enough to see the reasoning, douche-baggy and uh, WRONG as it is. ...

Yeah, it would take something REALLY BIG AND IMPOSSIBLE for Orihime to not be Ichigo sexual. "Fall in love with the same person five times" is pretty telling. PS favorite part ever, even if Ichigo's nose tried to swallow the scene.

Lulz, I babble at people when they least expect it. Innocent IM conversation about RP something, and WAMBAM JULIE'S ON A TANGENT. I FINALLY pulled a friend of mine into Bleach, but our schedules refuse to coordinate for babbling. MY WOE IS UNTOLD.

The Bount arc, which I only skimmed through because ew filler, is pretty awesome for Ishida lame. XD For being a knight in shining armor, there are a number of times in canon where he's totally a damsel in distress, but the Bount arc was like, the penultimate of his damselhood. He woke up on a woman's couch after fainting and he blushed furiously when it looked like she was about to molest him. She carried his unconscious body draped over her arms like he was a swooning princess. Those are memorable fucking moments. It's hilarious how he can be so "I'm a chivalrous knight" while simultaneously totally failing at being manly. Knitting, swooning, rescued by Chad and Orihime, bitchy snippery at Ichigo... Yeah, you fail, you dork. ♥

(Chad/Karin bwahaha. Their love is so not-as-filler-as-Hitsugaya/Karin!) You're right, I hadn't thought about it that way. D: He literally hasn't had a partnership since her, and that's so incredibly sad. But Chad's friendship with Ichigo is so incredibly moving and significant and it really does get shafted. I feel bad because Chad's been kind of usurped by Renji and Rukia, Ichigo's new best friends, and we see far more of their bonds than of Ichigo's bond with Chad. And Chad is totally fucking awesome and a huge dork. ~~But he evidently bonded off-screen with Shuuhei, I discovered?~~ I demand more Chad!!

Re: Ladies! I'm in love with like. All the hinted-at relationships. Ichigo/Orihime, Renji/Rukia, Gin/Rangiku, Kyouraku/Nanao, Hitsugaya/Hinamori, Kira/Hinamori, Shuuhei/Rangiku, Rukia/Orihime, Rangiku/Orihime... You're so right though, Hitsugaya and Renji would probably wither away and die if Rukia/Hinamori ever happened. XD (Those two in particular have the ♥ pretty bad, if you ask me.) And despite my shipping Orihime around (Chad/Orihime!) you can't argue that she's Ichigo-sexual without ignoring the canon. That's cool with me. I'm capable of liking things while acknowledging that they're not immediately likely in canon! ~~More fans should be able to do this.~~

(Re: "Fall in love with the same person five times" -- That was the sweetest goddamn thing ever. So incredibly romantic, despite, as you say, Ichigo's nose.

libekory and I agree that thematically it was appropriate, reminding us that despite the romance of the moment, it isn't "right," because Ichigo isn't participating in it, not even aware of it; there's this jarring element that keeps it from being "perfect". But holy cow, that schnozz...)

Yeah, I think that -- okay, we know Urahara was just saying "You can't fight" because he was trying to keep her out of the spotlight so Aizen wouldn't notice her. We know Hachi was saying "You're not the kind of person who should fight" to test her resolve. And Ichigo is retarded and he was just like "Don't worry! You don't need to fight! I'll protect you!" with absolutely no concept of what was going on in her head. Ishida, I think, had no reason to think that except that he genuinely believed it -- that she wasn't the kind of person who should be fighting, who would be a liability in combat and needs protection. I don't feel at all that it's a sign he doesn't appreciate or respect her as a person -- I agree with you, he has more sentimental, woobie moments towards her than any other person of his acquaintance. (Although girls in general do seem to get at him. See: Nemu.) I'm pretty sure that that instance was just the chivalry in him kicking up a notch into well-intentioned misogyny, and so I accept that now as just one of his foibles that some girl will have to kick out of him someday.

I AM A WELCOME RECEPTACLE OF BABBLE IN ALL ITS FORMS. :D

Haaaaa, I am terrified of Bleach filler and have yet to see a proper episode of it, however, that image of Ishida in the damsel in distress pose KILLS ME DEAD. It's like LOL WHAT THIS IS OUR HERO? He is cool, in his way, but he's so socially retarded that he just ... the slightest challenge to his cool leads to it breaking apart utterly. Other times, he does get to be cool, and he's not even strictly trying! There's every kind in his fight with Cirucci, for example.

Yes, I mean -- I really, really like Ichigo/Chad. And it has not been given proper treatment for a hundred chapters. Since the bit in Soul Society. I really miss it. Peeps could argue that Renji and Rukia mean more, and it's just ... come on, KT, where's the Chad? And why have him power up to a certain point, only to be always forever owned? You EMPHASIZE partnership, yet with Chad, portray him as strong enough to be on his own, except he ultimately always fails when confronting a strong opponent. Wrrry.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Anything and everything that has a bit of subtext I'm all over, excepting most of the male-male stuff, which is or at least was somewhat unusual for me! Rangiku/Orihime -- THEY EAT SAME FOODS. BOOBS. Kon would be in heaven. I fear the day Rangiku takes Orihime to the bar. It'll happen. Just wait. ... and, while I like everything, I'd feel pretty bad for Renji and Hitsugaya at least in the immediate, if Hinamori and Rukia found other people. They are so. Obviously. Or, sure, Renji could merely be a sibling feeling, childhood friends, but then, that speech he gives to Ichigo the almost total stranger about the dog being too afraid to reach for the star? A LITTLE MORE INTENSE. (Funnily enough, possible symbolism: Renji the dog barking at the star, star out of reach. When Ichigo rescues Rukia, he tosses her DOWN to Renji. It's a comical scene, but it's almost like the star falling to the dog. HAR HAR OVERREADING). And yes, word. I like plenty of things that wouldn't immediately happen in canon, in Bleach and otherwise. Half the fun of fanfiction and RP is exploring not only the definite canon, but exploring the possibilities that exist there that won't be fulfilled in that context.

(Pretty much all of Orihime's moments in that arc sort of owned me, owned me, but that moment (and also the Rangiku, crying moment) really, just, oh my HEART. But, thematically, that's interesting. KT must have been aware he was making the nose huge as he drew it, however lovely Orihime was. ... Hmm.)

Good point. Ishida certainly believes it, and in a very well-meaning way, he's completely a misogynist. At least, mm, I don't think he'd tell that to Rukia, for example. So it isn't, perse, a feeling toward all woman (not that I think you were suggesting that, because I know you weren't!) but with Orihime, his perception of her was definitely a little unfairly balanced in favor of "ME MAN ME PROTECT," believing her too -- something for combat. Which is both an insult and a back-handed compliment, an underestimation in a nice way, which is probably the worst sort of way. ... Ishida does have those lady moments. Oh, Nemu. ♥ I want more of her too, somehow. Ishida does have a thing for coming into contact with mad scientists and ladies, and connecting with the ladies -- even with Cirucci, there's that moment where he chooses to spare her at the end.

THAT IS A JOYOUS THING TO ME. You know, reading through the old Ishida logs at

fear_borne has filled me with a feeling of inadequacy and fear! Word economy, and oh man, these perfect little monologues. Fret mode, onWARD.

I'm not going to lie, the Bount arc is pretty universally unappealing. But yeah -- I do admit that Ishida has his totally damn cool moments. Even before I liked him, I enjoyed his fights. And, uh, well, he vomits blood nicely if you crush his internal organs. ~~Szayel Aporro is such a god-moder lololol.~~

I think Chad got especially shafted because while you can tell the depth of his affection for Ichigo, Ichigo has so much stuff with everyone else, especially his new buddies, that Chad doesn't really get the same treatment from him. You know it's there, you're told it is, but Ichigo just sort of assumes he's invincible and doesn't blink until he isn't. I think Rukia's friendship is certainly extremely significant to Ichigo -- she changed his entire life -- and that he has a strong bond with Renji, but I hate that Chad gets shunted to the side because he's "just" human (even though he isn't??) and no matter how hard he struggles to get back to Ichigo's level, he never... seems to make it. :\

I really just don't get much "subtext" off the male-male stuff, it's weird. I mean, yeah, they're friends, but I don't feel like there's... anything unusual there. On the other hand, Rangiku/Orihime -- slfkslkfj I love their wet half-naked bath conversation so much. (So would Kon. X3 Yes, yes.) Orihime is such a sweetheart and Rangiku gives good advice. Have you seen-- XD There was a manga omake where everyone was at the beach, and I wasn't reading really closely, but everyone was split up into teams to construct cool things out of sand. And Ichigo, Ikkaku, and Renji are all on the same team, except the latter two are doing all the work and Ichigo is just like, whatever, and then he catches sight of the Rangiku-Orihime team, and he's like, ".......HEY. WHAT WEIRD THINGS ARE YOU TELLING HER??" Rangiku is showing Orihime how to use her boobs to do something to the sand. XD

(I overread that scene so goddamn much, but I lovelove your take on it. XD If anyone could break the metaphor and pluck a star for the stray, it'd be Ichigo. He doesn't bother with delicacy. And for me, Ichigo/Rukia lost any drive in that moment, because dude he can't not have noticed Renji's ♥, and he had this sentimental expression on when he threw Rukia at him -- to me, that expression totally said, "Those wacky kids. I hope things work out for them.") Renji is so intense when he begs Ichigo to save her, and the stray/star metaphor kills me. It's beautiful and tragic. D:

Hitsugaya is a character I have trouble seeing with anyone other than Hinamori (although I also appreciate Hitsugaya/Rangiku, I'm extremely picky about how I like it~ I've been doing a lot of Rangiku character analysis lately sd;lfkjslf I'm a dork) but this is a natural side effect of having literally devoted the last forty years of his life to her. Joined the academy for her, learned his zanpakutou's name for her, goes totally flipping off the wall if you hurt her... Even if I take the sibling route, I still can't see him with anyone else. ~~And it's not like I wouldn't be interested in seeing her with um everyone.~~ /random

I think in Bleach, Rukia in particular suffers from "one of the guys" syndrome. Like Ishida suffers from "one of the girls" syndrome! Half the time I don't think Ichigo knows that she's female, and I don't know if Ishida really does either. XD Regardless, Rukia does kick ass, so I can see why Ishida might think, "Oh, Kuchiki-san can handle herself, but Inoue-san is so ladylike and gentle, she needs to be taken care of," whatever. But Rukia >>>> everyone else when it comes to Orihime's insecurities. Everyone else said you can't fight? Then we'll train until you can fight. Don't listen to those jackasses. I will beat them up if they argue.

(I wrote Ishida/Nemu, and writing from his POV was terribly fun, even though the fic was supposed to be all dark. XD It was funny-dark? Um.)

App~~~ D: I'm sure you'll kick the ass of-- whoever that was lol. I've never read a log with the old Ishida, he never interacted with Hinamori or Orihime in that game, and I've been lazy about reading other people's logs. XD

WORD ECONOMY IS FOR PANSIES. I exceeded LJ's max character length on this comment.

His Mayuri fight breaks my heart everytime, whether it's because of Nemu, or the flashback with Souken when Ishida did not and STILL DOES NOT understand that Ryuuken behaves as he does because he loves his son, or just the, the, kdmsal Souken. Chad + Uryuu = they got grandpa issues!

But, really, on that note, on the Chad note, Chad has been shafted in every possible vein. Just, shafted. He has been so shafted that recent arcs have produced cries of "Is that... totally IC?", and it's hard to tell. I.E. I recall some wondering at the way Chad seemed to, hm, gloat? if not gloat, but some similar word, over his defeat of an enemy. It's not like him? I'm not explaining my point well, but -- Chad gets beat up by Arrancar. Chad angsts. Chad trains in ways we do not see. Chad goes to Hueco Mundo. Chad fights a bit and gets defeated. But we do not have the same time, the same panel-devotion to his issues regarding strength, failing Ichigo, etc. it all feels very cursory, and that's really disappointing. Ichigo's supposed to be his BFF but we don't get much there at all, perhaps a sort of structural, silent understanding, but... it'd be nice. What about his grandfather? Why does every other character earn these connections, these people to flounder with -- I mean, some say Ishida isn't favored as much by KT (LOLOKAY), but he has Orihime connections, he has his FATHER!!!. In Hueco Mundo he has a moment with Cirucci which manages to have, comic relief aside, much more emotional and thematic importance. At home--would it be so hard to show Chad hanging out with Orihime a little? Someone? HELL, he trains with Renji, right? Chad's silent but we could've been given a little more of them together. While Dordonii and Cirucci give us clues to Arrancar mentality and leave us with a sad sort of pity, sympathy for them, Chad's fight was kind of. Not.

/SORRY LONG RANT, but, seriously, could he be anymore shafted answer is no.

It's funny because Shounen tends to lend itself to male-male subtext. Like, Naruto is loaded with it. It's overpowering between certain characters. Kishimoto admits to being bad with females, so he tends to emphasize the male, and that may have something to do with it-- but in Bleach, it's really, the subtext really only comes with the ladies. Which is suprising in a sense because we have these intense connections between men, with Grimmjow and Ichigo and Ichigo and any male he fights, but ... I don't know, it's subjective too, because a significant portion of Bleach fandom DOES slash, but I just don't see it. LOL I tried to read an Ichigo/Ishida fic and just scratched my head. When Ishida was like, I WANTED YOU TO BE MY KISS or something I was like LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL NO. And then I found the funniest AMV ever.

It's painfully amazing (http://youtube.com/watch?v=JFIc3pYr-g0). Especially because it's serious.

UM YES IS THAT THE ONE WHERE BYAKUYA AND RUKIA INEXPLICABLY HAVE THE SAME TASTE IN ART?! AMAZING. The Rangiku-Orihime bond was.. surprising and sweet and great, and things like that make me really love KT, even as he shafts Chad.

I love that Ishida is so fucking clueless about his dad. XD It's a very traditional anime theme, no one ever loves money for the sake of loving money -- they love it so that initially you can think they're dicks, until later it's revealed that it's all for the good of his family, and he just chooses to express it as if money is more important than his family. Of course, Ryuuken is also a dick. Like father like son.

To be honest with you, I have very few memories of Chad's fight, except that I think his opponent was the one who got me interested in a plot point that lol is never going to fucking come up again. Hollow arm what?? But then, I only really remember Dordonii, of those early fights. He's the guy who gave us our insight into why the Arrancar follow Aizen, and his poem was fascinating, and I liked his dorky chocolate metaphor. The reason I call Szayel Aporro a god-moder isn't because he's whooping Ishida and Renji, but because he just won't fucking die. It's like, "Haha, I am invincible to all your best attacks because I've seen them before!" "Okaaay, well, we use one you haven't seen yet." "......well, well my room is sealed! You can never escape it! Also, I have thousands of minions to fight you! Also I can make clones of you!" "Okay, well, we'll fight them and bust open your room." "...WELL I CAN CRUSH YOUR ORGANS WHILE YAWNING." "Ow. wtf." And that's gone on for like. Forty chapters or something. The Orihime rescue has had this same problem: you were defeated by Ulquiorra? Well, now Grimmjow is here with a healer. You defeated Grimmjow? Well, now Nnoitra is here and he's going to fight you. Nel defeated Nnoitra? As if, we haven't even seen his release yet! For forty chapters. XD And I know it's shounen and we're nearing a dramatic climax, and I'm not one of those people screeching about how the HM arc is so much more inferior to the SS arc and KT has jumped the shark, but all this time and there's been... no plot movement at all. Everyone is still standing exactly where they were when Rukia had the one really cool fight of the arc (and the only really meaningful fight of the arc, and the only fight that took no more than 4-5 chapters, like EVERY fight in the SS arc -- one of my favorite fights in the series to date is Gin-Hitsugaya, and that thing lasted like, five minutes) and died (skjdfhskg come ON KT can Orihime get OVER THERE PLEASE). I'm impatient. :(

/TANGENTIAL COUNTER LONG RANT

I don't know. All I know is that my fandom dialogues are like,

Slashfen: kfjsjkfjhs Ichigo/Renji!!
Me: I guess. I kinda think they're just friends.
Slashfen: fkgskjlsk Gin/Hitsugaya!
Me: .......not really, no. Pretty sure Hitsugaya's sole interest in him was Hinamori's continued health and happiness.
Slashfen: sfkjjhsfs Ichigo/Hitsugaya!
Me: ...you're just reaching now, aren't you? They haven't had a single significant conversation.

That's what happens a lot. XD I will watch that AMV when I get home from work.

And yes! Byakuya-Rukia are weirdly well-suited. You'd think they really were biological siblings.

Yupyup, though I'm not as clued into the thematics of anime! Not money-wise, anyway. But, if we ever had to wonder why Ishida's such a bag of douche: oh, hello, Ryuuken! The way to show your son that you love him is to disapprove of and insult him in every possible way. Yup :D, GOOD GOING CHAMP.

I really liked Dordonii's fight *_* omg, the mass mass loads of insight we got into him, into Arrancar, even into Ichigo! And I do also like his poem. Dordonii is just so cool. I also enjoyed Cirucci's fight, if out of a biased Ishida-fan way. Also, because, you know -- her willingness to mutilate herself in order to attempt to win. But admittedly, I also don't remember much about Chad's fight, which I now declare as another example of the KT shaft! *cough* -- YEAH SZAYEL GODMODES LIKE THAT, TOO. It's pretty crazy. The Hueco MUndo art is getting pretty ridiculous like that. Hah, maybe a thematic way of reinforcing how potentially suicidally dumb this was? "Oh, let's charge into a place where at least ten far beyond captain level Hollows live. Also, how are we uh, getting out of here?" I'm also impatient. :/ RUKIA. RUKIIAAAAA.

I--I love your fandom dialogues. If I got involved in fandom discussions, mine would also go like that. True, re: Byakuya/Rukia. Gives the pairing that extra bit of dissstuuuurrbing.

(Oh, totally. Just. Ichigo's completely dense, but his decision to toss Rukia down, to entrust her safety to Renji, is ... akjfkas so significant, so potentially symbolic, that I wonder how people can argue that RenRuki lost its chance when he let her go. HAHA, "Those wacky kids". That is perfect and true and perfectly true.) And, man, how she gets upset and he knows exactly why and tells her to stop, it's just, dl;fsads they do get each other. Have you. Haha, this is the rec comment. Read my favoritest fic ever? HERE (http://moonsheen.livejournal.com/68670.html#cutid1). <-- HELLO PERFECT WORLD.

Ooh, I'd like to see your Rangiku character analysis. In the single group I've RPed Bleach in, a big ol multi-fandom affair, the one Rangiku we had... ... left a lot to be desired, and sadly, I sometimes forget why she's SO GOOD. Hitsugaya has major love for Hinamori, though I don't think she sees him as more than her childhood friend yet. Sadly! Hitsu-Rangi could be interesting, though I really like their partnership as is. Mm, in that vein Hitsugaya is like Renji -- even if you take the sibling route despite their serious, kind of frighteningly intense devotion, it's difficult to imagine them with someone else and not still putting Rukia and Hinamori first. Which is important.

Hahaaaa, yes, like Tatsuki. Rukia talks tough, like one of the guys (and according to Renji is yet delicate and untouchable!). ... Ishida is a cool man who also sews and cooks and is somewhat bitchy like a housewife. If they were gay, IshiRuki OTP? YEAH. Rukia's handling of Orihime's feelings was the BEST THING EVER, oh god, she touched her cheek and they went off to train and it was amazing, and I wonder how fans of one could ever hate the other, it's like FFVII all over again but LESS LOGICAL because at least in VII there WAS that tension of both girls liking same boy, and in Bleach, notsomuch.

( ... REALLY. LINK? :D. )

It's, hmm. I was really jealous at first, because said Ishida employed word-economy and was really... funny. Like, his little speeches were spot-on and hilarious and petulant and proud in a kind of ridiculous way. But after awhile, I felt a little better, because it struck me as a bit 2-D, because Ishida, especially these days, isn't all "And this is a long self-important sentence about why I'm preening and cooler and this is a faulty idea and this kind of sucks and you also kind of suck and so forth". Very clever, packed well, but especially in later arcs and just now, he seems to have chilled out some. I guess it depends on context and company, and whatnot, but, flsad I DON"T KNOW I'M REALLY WORRIED. It's hard to pick up in the same shoes! ... But I guess you'd understand that, having to taked up after Hinamori and Orihime!

... Woops.

That argument kills me. XD "HE LOST HIS CHANCE." Things aren't always that clear-cut. It's not like she severed all ties with him in that instant -- she was hurt, he was devastated, and both of them have missed being close. Missing a significant emotional cue once doesn't destroy the emotional connection, and it's obviously still there. She was horrified when she felt his reiatsu disappear, horrified!, and when Aizen confronted them--! Dude.

Even if she had lost his chance, why would that be? Because she thought, "It's too bad he didn't care enough to not let me go, I think I really loved him." But when he faced down Aizen and snarled that he was never letting go even if it meant Aizen removed his arms, she has to have realized that he did care that much and it wasn't because he didn't care that he let her go last time. He's learned -- so can she.

That fic is fanfuckingtastic. XD On crack, IC, and totally awesome. Thank you for sharing!

If I ever start that other RP, I'm going to take Rangiku on it, so in writing her app-stuff I wound up thinking a lot about her personality and her relationships. Maybe I'll ramble about it on my LJ instead of here, exploding into yet more max-limit-exceeding comments. I also vastly prefer Hitsugaya/Rangiku as an awesome mismatched partnership than a relationship, so will elaborate in character analysis rambling.

I agree that Hinamori sees him as a childhood friend more than anything else at the moment, and you can't really blame her, because poor Hitsugaya's been eleven years old for forty years now, and I don't know if she knows that tugging her metaphorical pigtails is how surly boys flirt. (But he's not a brother. In the drama CD thing about the academy backstory, Kira asks her specifically, oh, is this your little brother? and it would be so easy, if she thought of him as that way, to say something indicating that he wasn't her brother but they were close like siblings, like "Kinda!" or "Something like that" but instead she erased that idea: oh no, nothing like that, he was my neighbor growing up. Which says to me that she doesn't, really, think of him as a brother.)

I like to think that Hitsugaya, not being retarded, knows how important she is to him, but how could he approach her? For one thing, he's the only male in Bleach who isn't even as tall as she is and she's not even five feet tall; approaching her when he's still this "young" (he's so tragic, for serious, he's only a LITTLE younger and if he'd waited like two years instead of joining the academy immediately after she did, he'd look her age, and now he probably has more decades of looking like a kid ahead of him) she's less likely to take him seriously, and much less likely to return the interest when she seems to favor Tall Broad-Shouldered and Smiley. For another thing, he wants her to be happy; she was happy in Aizen's service, glowed!, and Aizen never hurt her. He couldn't win that kind of respect from her even when he out-performed Aizen (e.g. youngest captain ever anyone?) and couldn't even really dislike the man, no one could, lol. As long as she was happy, he was content to let her be happy.

I think you're right that Hitsugaya and Renji are both very similar in their affections. I find it difficult to imagine either moving on unless Hinamori-Rukia respectively are... like, dead, or happily married or something, first.

fklgj;dfgjkl I was so angry when someone took that moment where Rukia was shouting sense into her, that moment that co-exists seconds away from the tender cheek-touch and the sweet smiles and the being an awesome friend, and making it into LJ icons with things like "STAY AWAY FROM MY MAN" and "ICHIGO IS MINE". Fuck you guys, srsly. Rukia is not as insecure as y'all. D: Way to ruin an incredibly beautiful moment by making the character you like a jealous bitch.

The Butterfly Effect, Ishida/Nemu. :D

Appappapp~ ♥

Yeah, the dumb of fandom is highly astonishing. You've pretty much summed up my feelings on the subject. Oh, man. Rukia and her self-esteem and the men who love her. Aaah, part of the reason I love Rukia/Renji so much is how much bad communication goes on, how often they miss one another ♥ I hope they BOTH LEARN. When someone tells me they think the series'll end Ichigo/Rukia, I'm like, hah, I bet you five bucks it WON'T. Not just because their moments, his rescue aside, aren't all that romantic in my bit of subjectivity... man. Someday I'd like to read a good Ichigo/Rukia fic. See what fandom's ruined for me.

ONE OF MY FAVORITESTS!!

Please write about it on your LJ! I'd love to read about how you feel about Rangiku. I'd ask you to go play her in

polychromatic, only I wouldn't wish her track-record on anyone. You wouldn't have to follow it, but, having to play where that history to a previous Rangiku exists...

Poor forever young Hitsugaya. ... Aaaah, cool! No, I don't think Hinamori perceives Hitsugaya as a brother, only that young friend and not yet as a man, probably not helped by her big ol' crush on the manman that was Aizen. But he'll always be there for her, so her eyes'll open eventually~!

How does that work, anyway? It's information I've missed. That he would've aged fairly normally outside of the Academy and shinigami-ness, but not so much once inside...? Oh, Hitsugaya. All the things you've got to overcome when it comes to Hinamori! Luckily, he'll stick around long enough. Unless Kira gets there first, lol, but you know--he's got his own personal fixing to do. Ouch, Kira. Ouch.

... SERIOUSLY!?!?! ... I hate IchiRuki fandom a little more each day. :/

.... THAT WAS REALLY GOOD. I AM VERY FKFSALKFML KEYBOARD MASH. Oh man. *___*. Oh Nemu. and, favorite line ever: At least Kurosaki had managed to get interesting women to like him (whereas Kuchiki and Inoue didn't seem to realize that Uryuu was, in fact, male) and so in that sense he was 'winning.' Uryuu hated losing to Kurosaki, especially when Kurosaki didn't know they were competing.

Did~ Only, my mind was still sort of in poetry mode, and I think it wound up being much too long without much of a CHARACTER in it. oops.

I have that thought, too -- the fandom annoys me so much that it's so tempting to dismiss the entire pairing out of hand, but I don't want to do that. I would like to read a fic where someone portrayed the pairing well and likably. :\ But I haven't found anything that felt right.

How did that person ruin Rangiku. D: This is the second time someone has told me that a bad player has botched her for them, I'm so full of rawr. Will post when I fail somewhat less.

Aizen is the hottest goddamn thing in the series, so I can't blame her for not looking at Hitsugaya. As for the aging thing, I can't claim to know this for certain, but I know that some people do age at a normal rate -- see, for instance, Ganju. When Kaien dies, Ganju is like, eight years old, but Rukia is clearly the same age as she is now. If they weren't aging at different rates, Ganju should still be like eight, or Rukia should be like, thirty. So my assumption is that most people age at a "normal" rate and shinigami age at a slowed rate. Either way, physically speaking Hitsugaya is only a few years younger than her. He'll eventually catch up and wind up towering over her like all Bleach males tower over the females of their acquaintance. XD And he will be smoking hot and then maybe she'll notice! (The only evidence I have that his aging is slower than "the norm" is that the Bleach Official Bootleg notes that he's lately been especially concerned over his slowed growth. It has to suck being a fifty-year-old twelve-year-old. Hinamori definitely doesn't think of him as a child ~~unlike Ukitake lawl~~ but she doesn't think of him as a grown man either. He's in some strange, unfortunate, Hitsugaya-limbo.)

I'm really glad that you liked. :3 Also that you applied mwahaha.

Mm, I exaggerate when I say that I hate IchiRuki -- because I don't hate the pairing, nor do I hate the fandom. I know plenty of fans whom I really, really like. It's that batshit corner that drives me up the wall and makes one of the stronger impressions, and I do see the appeal, of liking the dynamic that IchiRuki has and wanting it also to be romantic. Of, perhaps, preferring that sort of dynamic to an IchiOri dynamic. and I'm sure there are some damn good IchiRuki fics out there, though admittedly, I've yet to make much of an effort to find 'em.

Well, in essence: she slept with most of the males, was pregnant with some demon-god's child thing for awhile while still sleeping around, at some point made a deal with the deities that involved the exchange of her memories and status of vice-captain as well as her zanpakutou for something and DID IT ... and dated Isshin while he was there. That's, you know. SOME OF IT. I won't let bad players ruin characters for me, generally, but because of them (Isshin, Rangiku, the Rukia, etc), I will read the manga and be surprised to realize, oh hey, she's awesome.

Aizen is pretty scary hot. Though the power levels sort of make me dizzy. See: Ichigo handily stop and destroys in one hit objects that are supposed to have the destructive power of one million zanpakutou. Aizen stops his attack with, what, a finger? ...... WHAT. HOW DO THEY EVER CATCH UP. MY MIND IS BLOWN. Hm, that makes sense. I also wonder if there's some choice involved. For example: Kyouraku, is that how her name is spelled? Ganjyu's sister? I have a feeling she's looked like that for a darn long time, and I don't believe she's a shinigami. But, but. Yeah. ... LOL UKITAKE. It's weird to think of Hitsugaya ever TOWERING over Hinamori. Or anyone. Ahaha, even Hitsugaya's worried. Probably because he wants to be taller than Hinamori and thus properly impressive. Then he can stop calling her bed-wetter, at least in THAT context. ... *awful*

♥ Again, my sample was so much tl;dr, but whatevvverrr. ALL SAMPLES SHOULD MAKE USE OF METAPHOR, AMIRITE? er.

Rangiku??

... HAY SZAYEL. (God, someone stop me).

He won't get his hands dirty XD. I was worried, initially, that KT would pull some godmodey thing out for ISHIDA-- where, he's a sixteen, almost sixteen year old kid, and even if he's supposed to be a genius, Szayel's been around for A VERY LONG TIME and I might've had trouble buying Ishida outsmarting him. Now, however, I'm skeptical that two fraccion even restored will be able to defeat an Espada ... Hmmm.

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UH OH I EXCEEDED. 1/2

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