[ SECRET POST #2438 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2438 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 01 pages, 012 secrets from Secret Submission Post #348.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ], [ 1 - sjwtroll ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I'm pretty sure that's why he does it. One or two "tear downs", okay, story and character arc and all that. More than three? Four? It's a fucking fetish (either that or he's so one-note he can't tell another kind of story). He cloaks it in "feminism" and all that but at the end of the day, I think he gets off on it.

Probably some form of revenge against all the girls in high school who didn't look twice at him.

[(Anonymous)]

so what, you get two conflicts per character and the rest of the series is fluffy bunnies and skipping through meadows? WHAT is the point of the story if not for conflict? jesus fuck what the fuck are you people WANTING here? for him to only torture male characters and let the poor little strong female characters off without a scratch because if he DARES treat them the same as ANY WRITER TREATS MALE CHARACTERS then it's a fetish and he's getting off on it? ew.

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

If he let them be STRONG without the denouement of getting punished for it, maybe I wouldn't think it was a fetish. Look at Xena: Warrior Princess - watch that show from beginning to end. It's chalk FULL of female characters, who, while they went through things, weren't torn apart emotionally (and physically) at EVERY TURN. Their being female was NOT the point of the plot. How they suffered was not because of their femaleness. They were never "boxed" the way Joss boxes (in some cases literally) his female characters. Buffy was emotionally tortured nearly every season, almost without relief, Tara was murdered right after having lesbian sex, Faith spiraled and went to prison to atone for not being emotionally strong, Anya was finally, terrifically heroic and human and got sliced in half during her epiphany, Lilah was beheaded (vampires on these two shows are usually dusted, almost without exception), Cordelia was raped repeatedly in one form or another while being tortured with nose-bleed inducing headaches, and Fred took an entire hour to die (after surviving five years in a hell dimension). A minor character like Robin Wood - who, for all intents and purposes SHOULD have died - survives what a main character such as Anya doesn't. Giles was still standing, and except for those two bouts of torture at Angel's hands, never went through ANYTHING remotely like the women characters in seven fucking seasons. Neither did Xander. Neither did Wesley or Gunn or Lorne.

Do I expect characters to suffer? Yes. But the nature of that suffering for Joss' female characters is skeevy as shit.

[(Anonymous)]

+100

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah! How come none of his male characters ever got sexually assaulted and almost strangled to death by a Slayer! Or lost an eye! Or had their throat slit and was nearly smothered in a hospital bed all because he tried to save a child, spent several seasons feeling like a total failure at life, lost his love, and finally wound up dying to be mourned only by the eldritch creature who killed her! Or was sent to Hell by his lover's hand and returned in such a traumatized animalistic state he had to be chained up for some time while recovering! Or was so oppressed in his own homeland he never wanted to go back and had his head fucking chopped off the one time he unwillingly did! Or was technologically and pharmaceutically violated and weaponized by people he trusted and considered family, most of whom he then saw killed and reanimated by a grisly human/demon hybrid! OH WAIT.

[(Anonymous)]

Or got abducted as a baby and raised in a hell dimension by his father's mortal enemy so he would become the weapon to kill his father. And became a pawn to be used by the people he trusted, over and over, until the only way to save his sanity was to wipe out his entire life and create a new fake one.

Really, some people have a selective way to watch tv. There's some serious confirmation bias going on here.

[(Anonymous)]

(either that or he's so one-note he can't tell another kind of story)

If anything, I think this is closer to the truth than the revenge-fantasy thing; see also the way that no romantic couple is allowed to have a continuing happy and healthy relationship, because Joss thinks that happy relationships don't make for good storytelling. I'm fond of a lot of his work, but he has some definite limitations.

[(Anonymous)]

Would you say the same for Shonda Rhymes? Is she not a feminist because she puts all her female characters through hard times? Oh wait, she does the same to her male characters... and she's definitely progressive in her varied portrayal of women...

[(Anonymous)]

Why are you bringing some other random person into this conversation and what are you expecting it to contribute to the debate about Joss Whedon?

[(Anonymous)]

DA. I'm presuming they're bringing another writer and showrunner (so not all that random) into the conversation to try to discern whether you are objecting to the actual handling of the female characters in fiction, or whether you apply the rules differently based on the gender of the writer. (NAYRT, but that was my take on their question.)