[ SECRET POST #2442 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2442 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 02 pages, 045 secrets from Secret Submission Post #349.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[saku]

you really have no place in this discussion and it is not taking place for your amusement. i have struggled for decades over my identity and have watched others do the same. i will not push aside the accomplishment of gay people. queer history has been dictated and written by people of all queer identities.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Internal struggle does not reflect being part of a movement. You talk as if you are an authoritative voice of the movement. You are an interested party who's read some stuff and then decided he knew everything there was to know. which apparently included a whole lot of negative thoughts on bisexuals.

And anybody can call anybody on bullshit. Don't matter what I like to kiss.

[saku]

i am not an authoritative voice on the movement and few people are. but my inclusion goes well beyond just ~reading some stuff and trying to meddle where i don't belong or whatever. such as it is i happen to think i have far more a place to discuss the matter than you do, for instance.

[insanenoodlyguy]

It's a flawed argument. Probably one that comes logically from personal feelings, but it is.

My sexual attractions and yours have no bearing on who's right, wrong, or whatever in between.

It might be the case if I attempted to argue from a perspective that was not mine. I have not. Chard put it more eloquently above but you've basically said somebody who claimed to be a part of the movement that you simply were not a part of at the time was wrong. to me, it seems like you said it with an authority I don't think you had. Perhaps you'd respect my argument more if I wasn't a straight guy with predominately masculine leanings, but that doesn't really change my argument at all. I never said you "didn't belong." But I did say you weren't there. Because you weren't. Being around physically alive at the time is not the same thing.

Obviously I disagree with you quite a bit about your perception of what cbrachyrhynchos was saying. He says he was there. If we assume that's true (which I am), that doesn't magically mean his word is law on the subject either. But you're saying "no, your group didn't do this, maybe they helped a little, but THIS group REALLY did it!" seems like the sort of matter you can't speak from the strongest position on yourself.

Take the last word if you like. Webcomics have updated and that's more interesting to me now.

[saku]

it's not that i think your thoughts are wrong. i just think it is wrong for you to be expressing those thoughts in a discussion about issues that do not, will not and have never affected you on a personal level.

i am also not saying that gay people can take credit for that which bisexual people accomplished. but it is not correct/accurate in any way to credit bisexual people for the entire overhaul of queer advancement, which is what i was getting out of the other person's post regarding that matter. it would be wrong of me to erase the accomplishments of bisexual people, which is why i' so irked it seemed like that was being done to gay folks.

you seem to think i don't have appropriate authority to be talking about this issue despite saying above that you don't think it matters.

eta: it wasn't my intention to take the last word but whatever.

[chardmonster]

He's in a long term relationship with a bisexual and was the first one in her life who told her she wasn't confused, a pervert, or otherwise weird. Before that she hated herself for it. That earned some points.

[saku]

that's great, you can go make him a bunch of ally cookies for all i care, but his relationship with you is not the same thing.

[chardmonster]

Well no, it isn't.

But you're claiming he doesn't have the right to talk in a public forum on a topic he actually does care about, and you picked a pretty late point to say it.

I'm not defending the guy any more than that, but I hope you know you're just digging the hole deeper the further this goes.

[saku]

i will dig through the earth twice over and into deep fucking space if it means reminding a straight cis dude that his arguments against a queer person on a matter that affects said queer person doesn't have the same real-world application.

i also said he does have a right to talk about whatever he wants. i'm only saying that i'm not going to be treating those opinions with much consideration since he's on the other side of the glass examining something that i live with every day.

[chardmonster]

Yes that is very thought provoking but it is

I



WHO HAVE THE LAST WORD

[insanenoodlyguy]

I had intended to leave and this time I will.

It doesn't matter that you talk about it. But it does matter when you position yourself as the fact keeper. I never said you didn't have the authority to talk about something, I said you shouldn't talk about it like you have that authority. There's a difference.

More then that though, wrong? Wrong for me to discuss an issue you brought up in a public forum? Nope. This is not some lgbt specic "safe space" designed for a specific group.

This is fucking fandom!secrets. It's for fandom discussion. Any discussion on this board that hasn't been frozen is one that can be commented on by anybody with a means to put text in the comment box. Just because it's not personal doesn't transform this discussion into something I did that was wrong. "your thoughts aren't wrong, but you can't speak them?" Fuck that and fuck you for saying so.

Finally, this is one of the oldest stupidest cards ever played. Not quite ad hominem but flirting with it. You disappointed me in using it. Now I'm done for real.

[saku]

just because you have a right to voice your opinion on the matter doesn't mean i am going to find it appropriate or valuable (bc frankly i don't care how you feel about lgbt issues as long as you aren't harming me in the process). so yeah to me your thoughts on the subject are given from looking in, rather than being in, the issue directly. that's pretty gutsy of you to do while at the same time telling me that my not being "involved" enough for you in issues that actually affect me somehow knocks my validity down a peg. you can involve yourself as you so please in lgbt issues but you can log off the computer and go back to not being oppressed or discriminated against for your gender/sexual identity, so you've really no stake in this discussion, and it's going to affect the worth of your thoughts because you don't have to apply them to your actual life. stop feigning offense for getting the longer end of the stick in life, i don't care.