[ SECRET POST #2461 ]

[case]

⌈ Secret Post #2461 ⌋

Warning: Some secrets are NOT worksafe and may contain SPOILERS.

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Notes:

Secrets Left to Post: 03 pages, 070 secrets from Secret Submission Post #352.
Secrets Not Posted: [ 0 - broken links ], [ 0 - not!secrets ], [ 0 - not!fandom ], [ 0 - too big ], [ 0 - repeat ].
Current Secret Submissions Post: here.
Suggestions, comments, and concerns should go here.

Comments

[feotakahari]

This might be a stupid question, but if we regularly critique aspects of American society, is it really improper to critique aspects of other societies? (I'm a Utilitarian, and American beliefs and values are opposed to Utilitarianism, so I can't say that I'm a part of "American" culture beyond following American social etiquette. I therefore can't say that I'm critiquing it from the inside any more than I could critique Japanese culture from the inside.)

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not american. When I see americans critiquing stuff that happens in my country from behind their monitors, with no knowledge and zero understanding either, it makes me want to strangle you. So fuck off, america a shit.

[(Anonymous)]

I've seen Americans criticise my country because they hear about hotels refusing to cater for Traveller weddings and complain about how racist Ireland is without realising the reason most hotels have for refusing Travellers weddings is because when they catered for Traveller weddings in the past violence broke out and they thrashed the hotel.

http://www.avalon5.com/weird-and-whacky/weird/would-you-raise-your-machetes-please-in-a-toast-to-the-bride-and-groom/

A Traveller even comments on the article and says violence is a normal part of Traveller weddings.

[mechanosapience]

You do have a point, especially given that there isn't a single American culture. On the other hand, despite rejecting certain American cultural values, you are still very much aware of them and are deliberately rejecting them.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm not saying it's improper to critique other societies, but that because Western countries have an unpleasant history of forcing their ideologies on non-Western societies especially, we Westerners have to be very careful with how we approach such critiques. We especially have to make sure our voices don't drown out the voices of critics native to those non-Western societies, who have a more nuanced and accurate view of things due to the fact that they're insiders.

[feotakahari]

I guess part of what's striking me is that if we say that sexism is just a part of Japanese culture, what do we make of Japanese authors who aren't sexist? If, say, Gen Urobichi writes really good female characters*, can't we say "I wish [Japanese author] would write female characters as good as Urobichi's"?

* Yes, the Urobutcher kills off a lot of good female characters, but that's because such a high proportion of the characters he writes are good female characters.

[(Anonymous)]

Sexism is a part of every culture. There's no "just" about it because it's something that can (and should) be changed, but what I'm saying is it's up to those cultures to change it themselves, not for outsiders to do so. Change imposed externally by imperialist powers on nations that have a colonialist history only builds resentment.

can't we say "I wish [Japanese author] would write female characters as good as Urobichi's"?

We can certainly say such things, but as outsiders our voices don't matter in the scheme of things in Japan.

[(Anonymous)]

I think it's a bit ridiculous to compare criticizing other countries' cultures to colonialism. We're not invading their country and imposing our standards on them.

And just because it's not your culture, it doesn't mean you can't have an intelligent opinion about it, and find problems with it. Culture should not be protected from criticism. Being critical is THE most important thing we can do as a species. And to leave it all up to the people from that particular culture who have possibly been raised to believe something to be true from birth isn't necessarily productive. North American "culture", if you will, raised me with loads of internalized misogyny that I'm still examining and correcting. Frankly I'm very grateful to the feminists from all around the world who helped me re-evaluate my perspective.

[(Anonymous)]

Internalized misogyny... the go-to excuse when other women don't agree with you.

[insanenoodlyguy]

Except they were talking about themselves? Are you just reading buzzwords?

Besides, by your logic, only people in your immediate local area can criticize you. many countries, obviously including the usa are large enough to have several cultures.